Parents and coaches, if you have ever raised or coached a strong-willed kid, this episode is for you. These kids are amazing. What makes them amazing also can bring an edge that can be difficult in parenting, difficult in coaching. And speaking from a coach and a parent who has experienced both, I am thrilled to bring you our guest today on the podcast, which is Wendy Snyder. So she's a positive parenting educator and family life coach dedicated to helping parents transform their homes into havens of connection, of peace, of cooperation. Sounds great, right? And this episode is a great one for both parents and coaches, 'cause parents, you're going to learn how to parent your strong-willed kid in a way that helps them thrive, right? Wendy also has raised a Division 1 beach volleyball player who, uh, she calls a cactus kid. You're gonna learn exactly what that means inside the episode. And from the coach perspective, I gained a ton of insight when... You know, you have, as coaches, those players that are intense, competitive, driven, and can sometimes be hard to have on a team. And you've got to create strong boundaries, you have to have good conflict resolution skills as a coach, and sometimes we don't. So Wendy helps us with all of that in today's episode. So enjoy, parents, coaches. I know that you will love my conversation wen- with Wendy as much as I did. All right. Welcome, Wendy, to the podcast. Coach Bre, thank you for having me. I am so excited to have this conversation today. I am too. Uh, we connected a bit ago, and then sort... It's been a long time coming to, to invite you on. And as I've dove more into your work, I am getting excited because we have moms and coaches that are listening who are really gonna resonate with some of what you will share today about this, this idea of a cactus kid, which we will get into in a little bit. Yeah. But before we do, for the moms and the coaches who have not met you, can you give us a quick version of who you are and what Fresh Start Family is all about? Yes. Well, hello to all your listeners. I'm Wendy. I am a powerful parenting educator and family life coach, and most importantly, I'm a mom of two, specifically the mom of an elite athlete who, um, has spent her, uh, last probably six years now preparing, uh, to become a collegiate athlete and will be headed to, uh, play Division I beach volleyball in the fall. And it's been so much fun to take what I teach and combine that into raising a strong-willed child into a thriving state. Um, so much of the world looks at strong-willed kids and honestly really tries to, like, get rid of the strong will, and- Mm-hmm it's such a pain in the butt when they're young. Yeah. I mean, they're toddlers, and you're just new to being a parent that, you know, there's just so many, so many messages that make you believe it's a problem, whereas my work helps families see it as a gift. And when it comes to elite sports and a competitive edge, it is just such an advantage. Um, so it's been really fun to learn how to nurture that. And my daughter, Stella, she's now 18. We started this work when she was 3, and I was absolutely in the pits of parenting. I did not know how I was gonna s- spend my days with, um, my beautiful, strong-willed child, which at the time I did not see her as that, right? Like, I just- Mm-hmm thought she should conform. She should listen better. If she... You know, I told her to go right, she'd go left. If I told her to stop pulling the dog's tail, she'd pull it harder. If I told her to not touch the baby, she'd shake the baby, right? Like, she just- Right always had this incredible fire within her, and I just had not been prepared with what to do with that. And so I found this work of connection-based firm and kind parenting, and we started to learn it and apply it when she was about 3 years old, and here we are 15 years later, and the work has transformed our family and our life, and I've gone on to become an author. I just published my first book called Fresh Start: Your Family Powerful Parenting to Restore Peace in Your Home. And then we also have a worldwide membership of families who really are looking to dissent, so to speak, from the autocratic ways. So autocratic is w- the way most human beings were, were raised. It's kind of the my way or the highway. Often, there's a lot of punishment, right? Like, if you get in trouble, you're gonna get grounded or get put in a timeout. And we replace that autocratic system with a firm and kind democratic system. Where we use compassionate discipline instead of punishment. We use responsive parenting instead of reactive parenting. We have a- we see humility as a strength, um, from a parental viewpoint, and then we really build the muscle to be able to see the strong-willed child as a blessing versus a curse. So that's a little bit about me, and I live in, uh, San Diego, California. Oh, yay. Okay. Yeah. Wow, that's amazing. Um, I'm really excited to dive more into this. My parenting brain is going, like, in a lot of places, but so is my coaching brain, so. Yes. Yes. Um, yeah. And you actually, I mean, you've had a front row seat from both sides now, right? Like, the parenting- Yeah and then, you know, a mom to an elite athlete who is very strong-willed. I love that. Um, before I get into kind of the, the meat of this, I am just curious, your daughter, Stella- Yes uh, you mentioned a little bit about her already, but what did her path, um, teach you about your own parenting that you didn't expect to learn? Because I know we have parents who are, like, in your exact spot with strong-willed kids. Yeah, what have, what have you learned that you're like, "I didn't, I didn't expect that?" Yeah. Well, I think the biggest thing I learned is that I don't know everything. Yeah. And that it is safe and okay to share power in a family dynamic. Again, being someone who was raised in the more autocratic household, um, you know, it was just if you had a kid that pushed back or challenged authority or had an edge about them, right, like, it just was seen as negative. And, you know, I think as I've raised this beautiful cactus kid who does have an edge, who does, you know, um, she's just intense. She's just an intense child. It's taught me to really humble myself and s- and again, be able to take away judgment of that type of personality and just see it for all the beauty that it has and not make it try to conform, um, off, you know, the analogy of, like, trying to make a, a circle peg fit in a square hole. Um, that's really just been such a humbling process to realize that it is okay to learn new things. Um, and the humility part has been the biggest piece, right? So the, the beauty of a strong-willed child is they have such a huge justice button that they will call out hypocrisy, and this is what makes them so great in the competitive landscape is because they, um, they just can't, you know, they just, that, this is what makes them so competitive and they just can't handle if things are unfair, right? Um, and so- Early on when I was reactive in my ways with her, she was not shy to call it out, right? Like, I would notice that she was basically my mirror. And so she, being my mirror, so if I yelled, she yelled. If I hit, she hit. Um, and it just caused me to be like, "Okay, I am the adult, and if I want to change and influence this behavior, if I want her to be more patient, if I want her to be more responsive to her brother, if I want her, um, to whatever, even in the realm of, like, not carrying shame about mistakes or being imperfect, I had to go first." And so that just turned into the biggest blessing in my life and caused me to become the person that I am today just by, by softening to this kid that-- The, the cool thing about strong-willed kids is they really thrive when they feel powerful. So inside of our book in, in section one, we teach about how every human being has four basic needs: the need to feel powerful, the need to belong, the need to feel valuable, and the need to feel loved, specifically unconditionally loved. And these kids just have a huge desire to feel powerful, and most parenting systems set you up to see that as dangerous. And once I realized that it's actually safe to share the power with her, that I could give her the ability to make more decisions, and if she challenged the boundary, it wasn't a four-alarm fire, that we could work together, that I could learn to influence her to kinda do what I wanted instead of force her through things like threats or punishment. So yeah, it's just been one big, giant, beautiful humility journey. And now I feel like I'm just stronger than ever when it comes to emotional literacy and just the full, like, elimination of shame from my own body, heart, and mind, um, because of what I've learned by raising Stella. Yeah. Okay. That's so, so great. Um, before we get any further, can you just define for us what cactus kids are? You have this certain- Yeah definition that you use. So walk us through what this actually means. Yeah. What, what is it? Yeah. So it's kind of just my fun way of saying strong-willed child. So, um, my friend, you know, Mary, who's also a parenting educator, she calls them spicy kids. Um- Yeah. I know Mary but strong-willed children- She's been on the podcast too. Oh, that's, maybe that's how I found you. I don't know. Um, but Mary's so, Mary's amazing. But yeah, everyone kind of has their own twist on it. But being- Mm-hmm that I'm a Southern California mama, and the, literally the only thing that I have in my yards is succulents because they're, they're like- Right you just, they're amazing, right? They don't require the same thing as flowers, but they're very unique, right? So we have a lot of cacti in Southern California. And they're so beautiful. Cacti are so- Mm beautiful. But they will bloody you, and you will get hurt working with them if you don't have the proper gloves on, and if you don't know what type of soil to put them in. If you overwater them and put them in the dark, they will not thrive, right? So when I look at strong-willed kids, I kind of see them as this amazing, um, again, very edgy, right? And a lot of parents who don't necessarily embark on the learning journey to learn how to work with them, they end up getting hurt. They end up being miserable. They end up, um, I think, y- you know, um, transferring shame onto their kid because it's just, it's just, it's, it's a whole special thing to learn how to work with them, how to not get offended by the looks they give you or- Mm-hmm the meltdowns they have when they lose or, um, the extreme competitiveness that so many have. And so the, some of the traits that we would say a strong-willed child has, and, and let me say this too is, before I go through the traits is, I think as children are developing from age zero to 18, there's the classic strong-willed kid who really just, it's part of their natural God-given design. It's just like Stella came into the world with a strong will. We knew it from birth. We could feel it. Um, her brother is very different. He's 15. He's also a, an athlete. He's a surfer and spearfisherman, but he does not have the competitive drive. But there's kids that are born with a strong will, and then there are kids that go through power surges of life, so power surge stages. So usually that's between two and six, and then the tween and teen years, and that is when they're going to go hard at independence, autonomy, challenging the boundaries and the status quo. But the true power kid, they pretty much live in it all the freaking time. Yeah. And so some of the traits of these type of kids are they're also, they're often incredibly determined and persistent. They often come across as, um, defiant. They might challenge the rules a lot. They're the question askers. They're often insanely competitive. A lot of these kids literally, like Stella could not play a board game until she was like- eight years old. I remember the day we, like, finally played a board game without her melting that she thought her brother was cheating or something. Yeah. Um, and they're often, um, very sensitive. Like, often they can have, like, really high highs when it comes to their emotions and really low lows when it comes to their emotion. Even physically- Mm-hmm they can be really sensitive. Those are just some of the descriptors. But what's so cool about these descriptors for strong-willed kids is, you know, when we say those things about a child, we might think that it's negative, right? Like- Mm-hmm gutsy, determined, stubborn, all these type of things. But when you look at some of the world's greatest leaders, when you look at some of the world's greatest coaches and athletes and underdog stories, you will see that a lot of times they have the same traits. But once they become a champion or a world famous coach or a leader, right? Like I always say, some of my greatest examples, um, of heroes for me is Martin Luther King Jr., Malala Yousafzai, Steph Curry of the Warriors. Mm-hmm. Um, but you see they have the same traits, but we describe them as positive, whereas with- Yeah the child we describe them as negative. But they really are- Mm-hmm the same same. So I think the goal is to see it from a young age as a blessing versus a curse and, and just be willing to go on the adventure of, like, often what includes healing yourself so you're not so reactive to them, and instead just able to, like, help them develop the things they need to develop, right? 'Cause a strong-willed child, they often need to develop a little bit more soft- softness and patience and compassion. Yeah. Whereas the non-strong-willed child, they just... they have other things they have to develop, right? Like, they're not as willing to get up on a stage, right? My daughter is, um, in addition to being a high level athlete on the beach volleyball court, she's also a really prominent drummer. And from a very young age she could just, like, roll up on stage and play rock and roll in front of a gazillion people, whereas her brother is very different, right? Like, he had to develop different things. So if you can see it as each child is unique and you have an opportunity to develop the life skill that they are missing, and it's not, it's not right or wrong, right? Like, the chill kid is not, air quotes, "better" because he's more patient- Mm-hmm and kinder to people. So it's- Right just a lot of paradigm shifting, um, to, to see, like, our job as parents, in my opinion. Yeah. And I think that's hard. I, I don't, I don't... Just judging by what's, what you said, I don't think I have, um, cactus kiddos. Um- Okay. But- Yeah I have coached- Plenty. Uh, I wouldn't say plenty, a handful, 'cause they- Yeah you know, you know when you have them. Um Yeah And there's, there is a mom, I- if you're listening, you know who you are, and you know who your kid is, um, that I've coached recently. I, and that's why I want you to also speak to the coaches in a second, because coaches can often find these kids really hard to deal with and label them as, like, the problem- Mm-hmm problem kids that, you know, there's, there's just so much. And then as parents too, it's hard, I would imagine, the judgment from other parents when you see your kid potentially doing something that's A kid that's not, like, super strong-willed would, like, just kind of goes with the flow, does what they're supposed to, all of that. So can you, I guess, first- Yeah speak to, um, that feeling of, uh, the parents who maybe are wrestling with some of that judgment or shame or, you know, based on how their kid is showing up in the world? Yeah. And give me an example because, like, say, say the ones that you think of when you're speaking of from the coaching angle, right? Yeah. 'Cause I have my own experience with Stella. It's been interesting because Stella, um, she was one of those kids that always kind of like really respected the, the coaches that were a little bit more of hard asses. Like they were- Yeah they were very, like, strict. And like the thing about a strong-willed child is they often will-- I mean, I guess it's unique because this... I'm speaking of a kid that was raised in the environment that she was raised in, right? So not all kids- Yeah are raised in this environment. So they often, you really have to earn their respect. Mm-hmm. So, um, you know, if, if a kid is being raised in a home where they're not getting a lot of empowerment, right? So they... We often say, like a lot of parents fear that if they give their kid more power in the home, then that kid will go out in the world and demand it. Mm-hmm. But it's actually the opposite. The kid that is a little bit more, um, respectful of authority figures out in the world often is the kid that's being super empowered and respected in the home. So- Yeah this might sound a little funny, but-- and, and I'm gonna speak to the, the shame piece here in a minute. But, um- Yeah A, if you see that your kid is, like, not taking direction well, right? Or like challenging what the coaches say to them. Now, sometimes I will say that, especially once you have high school athletes, it's important to hear your kids out, right? Like you don't have- Mm-hmm to always correct them. And if they're-- You know, I've had instances where Stella will share with me authentically, like, "I just feel like this coach is really off." And part of this work is to not correct them often and to let them. Mm-hmm. And, and that coach did end up k- as, being asked to step down eventually. So point being is, I think as parents, we often wanna correct our kids when part of the beauty of this work is to be able to listen and say, "Tell me more." Yeah. And then coach them on the skill that they need. So coming back to if you're seeing that they're, like, not taking direction well from a coach, let them share with you what's happening, um, and then help them develop the skill to be able to take direction a little bit better. Mm-hmm. And so from a parent angle, yes, the strong-willed child, especially when they're younger, I mean, once they hit high school, again, if they're, like, having defiance with a coach or like not taking direction well, I think it's just another opportunity for the coaches to see it as an, as an opportunity to teach versus a threat or defiance, right? I think the best coaches know that that is a gift, and you wanna harness that, like that ability to believe in your own voice and to be able to Really, like, think that you know the best way to hit the ball. Like, that's a great gift, and we use the word a lot and, A-N-D. And here's what I need you to do in order to stay on the court training with me. Like, I need to feel like, I need to feel like I'm able to coach you, you take direction, and you apply the coaching, right? Like, I think the more a coach can just feel like it's not a four-alarm fire, but they need to address, right, the defiance in a child. Mm-hmm. I think the more that child will respect the coach. And, um, and yeah, I mean, I've been there where it's like, gosh, I just wish my kid wasn't so big, right? And, and you just... You're not alone if you're a parent that has this type of, um, strong-willed or boisterous or, like, a little bit defiant child or a lot defiant child. And I think I'll just share that in the end, when you learn to embrace it, when you learn to keep mentoring that child through those, like, hiccups of defiance or misbehavior or not so good meshing with a coach, um, it's such a beautiful way to build relationship. Because when you see your kid in their worst moments, and instead of shaming them or punishing them or, um, calling them names, "You're acting entitled," or, "Don't be a brat." Like, w- we teach parents how to do it different. When you are able to, like, work with your child in their worst moment, so to speak, it really does such a wonder to build the relationships. And when you are able to teach your kid like, "Hey, today's practice didn't go great. I got some feedback, um, that your coach wants me to talk to you about A, B, and C." Or hopefully that coach will talk to them, 'cause, uh, once you're in high school, like, a coach really should just be talking to the kid. Um- Sure and mistakes are opportunities to learn. This is where having compassionate discipline in your home versus punishment is, like, crucial. So you made a mistake. It's okay, right? Like, your coach is correcting you. It's okay. It doesn't make you bad. But as long as a parent has punishment present in their home, so, like, if a kid messes up, punishment would be they get their iPhone taken away. They get grounded. They, um, get their e-bike taken away. Um, those are the classic three that we're seeing in modern normal families these days. But that creates defensiveness when a kid is corrected. So if you have a coach- Mm-hmm that says like, "Hey, we need to work on this. This isn't working," or a parent that says that, the kid, when they're in a punishment environment, they're gonna defend themselves, and they're gonna reject the, um the mentorship, if that makes sense. So as a parent, you're not alone, you're not doing anything wrong, and it might be time to update your system, so to speak, right? Like we all... Can you imagine if we were still working off iPhones? iPhones didn't even exist in the '80s, but imagine if we were all still working off operating systems from '80s computers, right? Like, we don't do it. So it's okay to just admit Maybe it's time to update my parenting system, if that makes sense. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and let's talk about that because I think, I know it's challenging maybe to talk to, um, both audiences, but I think it's so important because it's like- That's okay, yeah we've got parents, we've got coaches. I'm gonna give you an example like you asked, and I- Yeah I wanna hear your response as a parent and what you would tell a coach to- Cool help the situation. So, um, the cactus kiddos that I have coached, first of all, have been the ones, like you said, to go on to play Division I highest level. Mm. Like they are the ones. And- That's interesting, yeah but, isn't it, right? And, um, the, the things that come up that are challenging, um, a little bit as a coach is the other teammate, her, their teammates will come to me and say that it's very challenging to play with this person because- Yeah they are so intense. I feel like I can't mess up 'cause they're gonna yell at me, because they have this high standard of competitiveness and they, you know, a high standard of excellence. The complaining, uh, arguing with the ref. And I'm like, every time that they do this, like, they are right. You know, like Yeah but they're actually justified- Yep in what they're, you know, but it, it comes out. So then they make enemies with refs. And now they're like, "Okay, we've got this player," and, um, you know, very high highs, low lows. And, and then when I, I chat with the player, I m- i- there's been... I've, I've had several, and we've had great relationships and, you know, we've had boundary standards. I'm tough on them and, you know, we also have to leave space for like, you've got a lot of emotions going on. Um, you know, they'll say things- Yeah like, "I just care so much, and like I'm, I'm being super hard on myself. Like I'm mad at myself," and then it comes out. So anyways, all of that wrapped up into uh- Yes, great question you know, like as- Yeah as a parent, how do you, how do you navigate that when they're coming in the car and being like, "Oh, this is what happened"? And then as a coach, how do we make sure that we meet them where they're at and support them? And the teammate dy- teammate dynamic can be rough sometimes too, so I don't know. That was a lot. Yeah. But. Yeah, no, I lo- I love, I love this question so much, and I'm just like s- I'm so excited to speak to it 'cause there's not a lot of shows like yours. Like there's not a lot of podcasts like yours. It makes me wanna be on more podcasts like this 'cause I just feel like the information is so important. So in our, um, observation through the years, it is, it's actually, so what I think makes my kid unique, and, and again, this is an example and it's not about like, "Oh, my kid's the best," right? It's just this is an example of what it looks like to see a human soul raised in this type of environment and what it creates, right? So there can be, um, immense caring and competitiveness and intensity without disrespect. Once you cross over to the disrespect land, that's a behavioral issue that needs to be coached and taught. And what I have witnessed is there is a difference in the kids that have been taught how to do conflict How to, um, approach conflict with respect and kids who have not been taught that. And again, I'm gonna go back to, like, the home system. When there is punishment present, when there is any type of hypocrisy, when there is a reactive parent that, um, that has not found the courage or the ability to be humble yet, your kid will unfortunately repeat that behavior, and it'll come out on the court, wherever it may be. Mm. So for example, we've experienced, you know, teammates over the years where same thing, same conversation happens of like, "God, it is so hard to work with them." And they're, they're unwilling to learn from it. They're unwilling to have the conversations. Um, and so what you wanna get to is the ability to bring anybody together that is having this type of, um, feedback for someone and say, "This, this doesn't make you bad, and we've gotta work together to figure this out." So for example, like w- you know, just in the beach volleyball world, um, if someone is challenging a ref and they roll their eyes or they talk- Mm. Like, um, we've had a situation where actually one of her college coaches was running a clinic, and the girls didn't like the way that he was, like, rushing them to get on the court. And so they started... And these are, like, high-level athletes that are going to top, top schools, and their fathers were there. And they started talking smack about this major coach as he turned away and walked away. That's an example, I don't care how competitive you are, not acceptable. Mm-hmm. That is where you start to create enemies. An athlete that just challenge- challenges the ref, they're not gonna create enemies. So is... A ref might be like, "Damn, those... Yeah, those kids," like they, I... They're gonna expect him when they come on the court if, if they're always gonna see him, but they're not, they're not gonna feel disrespected by him. So again, the opportunity is to teach how do you, uh, how do you combat conflict without being disrespectful? And that is a huge part of what we teach here at Fresh Start Family, is the ability to have peaceful conflict resolution. Mm-hmm. And so, um, you know, to be able to communicate and say like if you... Say you have a team, right? If you were, I th- you know, you have indoor volleyball history, I have beach, so there's just two of them. But if you have a team who a few people are saying like, "Hey, we're having trouble working with this person," as uncomfortable as it is, you gotta get the team together and just say, "Hey, this is not..." Or, or have one-on-one conversations where you bring the children, the kids together and, and teach them peaceful conflict resolution. So in our world, the way we teach it, and again, it starts in the home and then it radiates out into the sports world, is, um, win-wins are simply I feel I want, how are we gonna make this work so we both win? Mm-hmm. So it's like I feel, for example, I, you know, and again, sh- um, my daughter had a partner where she tried to come at her and say, "Hey, let's work this out," and the kid was like, "I'm not interested." Mm. And she walked away. But if she would've been interested, they could've sat down, and she would've said something like this I feel hurt when we lose a game, and it feels like you give me the silent treatment afterwards, and it's really intense to handle it. And I feel like our game goes downhill once the attitude like that comes into our dynamic. What I want is for us to have grace and compassion with each other and learn from our mistakes and whatever. Something like this, right? And then the other kid has an opportunity to go and say, "Okay. Well, I feel frustrated," whatever, "and what I want is for you to not like be as affected from that because that's just who I am." I'm just making this up right now, right? Yeah. But like the person needs gets to, gets to say, "What I want is for you to be able to detach a little bit from my intensity," right? Like, I'm not trying to be mean. Again, I'm just having this one person in my head that I can imagine if she were to have been open to this, the relationship could have been preserved over the years, and they could have had a really great partnership over the last few years 'cause they both ended up being top recruits. But she was not interested, her mom was not interested, and so they parted ways. So win-win, that's what win-win looks like. And as, as uncomfortable as it is, you get kids talking, but you do it in a way where you're not disrespecting people. Um, and then as a coach or as a parent, you see where the actual problem is happening, and then you learn how to work with the kid in a way that doesn't induce shame, right? So it's like you're not in trouble. This is the blessing of a competitive strong will, and this comes along with an edge that with your personality, this is just par for the game, right? Like you just... Sometimes learning that softness or the relationship skills, it's just part of it, right? So like here's what you can do when you are so pissed at the ref. Here's what you can do when you feel like your teammate keeps not performing the way that you want them to that is respectful and a healthy way to process anger or hurt, um, or scared, fear, right? Like a lot of times in sports, it's actually fear that you're gonna lose. So yeah, emotional literacy comes into it, and so I hope that makes sense. It's like you can be very intense and not make enemies, which, you know, I think is an example of what, um, my girl has done through the years, but she is known as a fierce competitor. For example, she's got a, a new, a, a person on her team in the fall who is so intense to play with. Mm-hmm. But she's not disrespectful. Yeah. She's a beast. Like sh- she's, there's a good chance she'll be in the starting lineup the first year, but she's not disrespectful. She's just intense, if that makes sense. There's a line, and you can work with a kid to develop relationship skills or self-regulation skills that don't come across as disrespectful. Does that help at all? Oh, absolutely. I'm really glad you delineated that too, because I also find that some of these athletes who maybe haven't played with somebody who's intense can sometimes take it at just the intensity and competitiveness as disrespectful. Mm. And that's where, like, the coach also, it needs to look at this with a lens of, like, is this just something new? Like, this is a new way of interacting with a teammate who has a different disposition than you, or is it that there's disrespect happening? So I think that is- Yeah a good distinction. And what can you do to be able to a- um, to develop detachment skills is such a gift, right? Like- Mm-hmm and my daughter will say, like, when it, like, there's a person that, um, we'll be like, "How about you ask them," right? And beach volleyball, it's so annoying. You have to get your own partners. I'm so ready for college 'cause, like, there will be no more, "Find your own partner." Right. But we will say, "Maybe you wanna play with them," you know? And she, "I don't know, man. Really intense to play with," right? But that's a decision, right? Like, you can learn to gel with that. And, and it's funny 'cause is, m- mine is really intense so I'm sure that gets said on the other side. But when you learn to, like, have your own self-confidence, detach from someone's exhales or their inability to, like, high-five you. Like, in the beach volleyball world, everything is very like high-five, positive. Yep. And if someone's, like, a little more stone-faced, it, detachment is just a beautiful skill to build because not everything is about you, you know? Yes. I love that. That is actually a mental training skill we teach our athlete- Oh, nice in the program on, like, teammate dynamics. That's different than disassociation, but yes, it's just- True detachment Yeah Like, I'm detaching, like, my feelings about myself from somebody else's actions. And that's great for, like, coaching too if you got tough coaches. Um, I did wanna ask- I think you, you kind of mentioned this, but I know that this is a question that's popping up for some coaches. Um, how do you have a conversation with a team, and maybe it's better, that's why like the one-on-one situation is better if it's really just like one person that's having an issue. Um, but how do you have a conversation as a team without making the cactus kid feel like something is wrong with them? Be like, "We're calling this meeting because there is"- Yeah "uh, something wrong." Yes. We're gonna do this. Exactly. Yeah, I think in the team dynamic, it is definitely, it's, it's harder to, to do that, right? And so I think you would wanna just schedule like a few one-on-ones with that person. I think that would be probably the way to do it, where, you know, usually let's say like you guys have, I don't know, do you have like 15 team members? Usually there's, if there's someone that is like coming across like that, there's three or four that are the most vocal. Those are the ones- Mm-hmm that you wanna go ahead and schedule the meeting. Like, I look back to that season with this one partner that nev- didn't work out, and I wish the coaches would've kind of forced a meeting, right? Like, they left it up to the kids, which is, which is great, but back then, you know, my, um, my daughter was, um, 9th or 10th grade, I think it might have been 9th grade. It was just too much to ask for them- Yeah to do on their own. But if it would've been kind of, uh, required, 'cause it's such a blessing for the kid that is bringing it up, right? And- They get to, they get to use their voice. And often, you know, a lot of the kids that are silent, they just don't have the same ability to, to be courageous and raise the red flag that something is hurting the team dynamic. So it is, it is really helpful for a kid to be like, "I wanna talk about this. This seems like it's..." You know? And but to be able to say it in the presence of someone without being disrespectful, because that kid who brought it up might learn something too, right? They might learn if they actually listen to the more strong-willed kid or the kid that's, like, being a little bit more intense. And it's just such a gift. That's one of my favorite thing about sports is the ability to work through stuff, right? To work through disappointments and seeing things from a different angle. But the coach definitely needs to be well-trained on peaceful conflict resolution before they hold that meeting, right? You wanna understand what a win-win is to be able to coach. And the big thing there that I want the coaches to hear is s- a kid will usually start going down the negative route. So they'll be like, "Well, I feel angry when you don't listen to me, and I want you to stop rolling your eyes and not listening to me." And the redo of that is ask for what you want. So, "I feel angry when it feels like you don't listen to me, when I've asked you to set me in this way," and then it keeps getting... I don't know, I'm just making this up. "And what I want for you is to just, um, say, 'I hear you, and I'll keep trying'" or something, right? Like, or, "I want you to set me closer to the net, and not be offended when I ask you again to do that." Right? Or to... The opposite of not be offended would be, um, to be able to see that as healthy communication. So the coach's job, in my, my opinion, is to help the player reframe it as what they want versus what they don't want. That is always gonna come across better to someone who's involved in that win-win or peaceful conflict resolution. It's gonna come across better. And the... Also, one of the, the greatest things that I like to recommend is to remember that behind every complaint is a request. That's all it is. It's just a request. So just going on with the, "You don't set me tight enough" complaint, the request is that you Set sooner or set closer, whatever it may be, right? Yeah. So to, to train athletes like... And this is the same in parenting, right? That's why it's, it all comes together, is if a parent is- Yeah constantly telling their kid what they don't want, "Don't touch that. Um, stop yelling. Stop hitting your sister. Um, stop talking to me like that," it- Mm-hmm it's just like this very combative relationship. Whereas when a parent learns to start asking for what they want, a lot of times children respond a lot better. And it's the same thing when you're in a room with two people who are having a struggle in their relationship. It's so interesting when we talk about this when it comes to coaching, like how much of coaching is this relationship- Oh, yeah dynamics, conflict resolution, all of those things that coaches are like, "I know how to coach a 5-1 offense. I'm really good at setting, and I can do all this." Yeah. It's like, okay, well, how, how are you with all of this? So the frame- With girl drama. Yeah, exactly. The win-win was, um, I feel, I want. Yep. How are we gonna make this work so we both win? That's good. I just want coaches to hear that. Okay. Yeah, and that's in like section three of the book. Okay. Yes, I know we've been chatting for a while, but I do have a couple more questions that keep coming up. One, this is for parents but also coaches, it's good to know too. What are, like, red flags when it comes to coaches and how they might be, I c- for lack of a better term, like, handling your cactus kid? Yeah. Well, again, there's always an opportunity to ask for what you want, right? This is such a nuanced question because I remember, like, there's so much detachment when it comes to parenting and raising athletes, right? Like, there really is. Mm-hmm. And of course, there's a fine line, right? If it's o- hap- something's happening over and over and over again, it's time to find the courage to have a meeting with the coach and say, "Hey, I notice that there's often this type of communication that's used. In our home, we just don't correct behavior like that," or, "We don't, we see mistakes as opportunities to learn, and I'm having trouble metabolizing what I'm hearing. Can you help me understand what's going on? Are you open to trying some different ways of communicating with my kid, or disciplining," or whatever it may be. And there's just a lot of detachment with it too. I remember when Saylor was really young, she was playing and one of her favorite coaches of all time now, this is years later. Yeah. But the ball came and hit her in the back of the head, and it, like, knocked off her glasses and he was like, "You were in the wrong spot." And I'll never forget this day. She was like, "I'm so annoyed. He made me run laps and then do push-ups." I mean, she was little. I feel like she was eighth or ninth grade. Wow. And she was just like, "I'm so mad," right? And then as time went on, he ended up becoming one of her favorite coaches, 'cause she's always kind of enjoyed the kind of intense coaches a little bit more than the, like, softies, so to speak. Um, which- Yeah is funny 'cause, yeah, again, strong-willed kids, they just, they will really respect someone if they earn their respect. And he's gone on. He now coaches pro and all the things. Point being is, if I would've stepped in and said something, eh, you know- Mm it didn't need to happen. I think when parents step in, quite often, it, um, disempowers the child, and it's a little bit of helicopter parent- parenting when part of a child learning to handle their own conflicts comes in you not fixing everything for them and teaching a child how to call their own meeting. And a lot of kids are like, "I will never do that." And if it gets to the point where you're like, this is... We have, in our area, in Southern California, some of my students years ago told me that in the baseball world here, it is, coaches are intense. Right. And this particular situation, I can't remember if it was the parent or the coach, but they slammed a kid up against the fence and- Oof was, like, shaming the heck out of him, and obviously, that's where you're like, "Hi. Meeting. I need to be in your office Monday. When's the first availability? We need to chat." Mm-hmm. You just developed the ability to handle a conflict with grace and dignity, and asking specifically for what you want. Which is new for a lot of parents, because so many parents are conflict-averse, right? They're very scared of conflict. But when you're paying a coach, and if it were to get to that level, or like I, I'm thinking about Stella's high school indoor experience. She ended up not playing indoor, 'cause she was just, like, so over the drama. There was a head coach that was doing some really inappropriate stuff, and, um, and she just chose to bounce and not be part of it. But it was really sad to witness that. A lot of the kids weren't empowered with the courage or just their parents didn't know how to handle it. They didn't want their kids to get docked for play or whatever. And then finally, that coach left, and everybody came out saying things that he did was inappropriate. So it's tough, right? Like- Yeah I think there's power in a group. But it's sticky. It's sticky. But definitely, if there is real, like, inappropriateness, find the courage to, to bring it up. I say it's kind of hard to know the difference, but you- I, as, as moms, I feel like we, we can also trust our gut a lot. And that too, it's always better. Yeah, true. I loved your, your framework of, can you help me understand, like this curiosity versus like accusations- Yeah was a great way to start that. True. But yeah, I always just remember, like with some of these kids that I coached, I'm like, I never wanna dim their light. I never wanna take away their spark in this whole process, and that is sometimes hard as coaches 'cause you're like, well, I don't wanna let them have free rein. Because you're right, they do better with structure, and this is such a beautiful part of them that makes them who they are, and I don't ever wanna take that away or make them feel like they should feel bad about this. A lot of it is just that language. You have so many strengths as, um- Mm-hmm an intense or strong-willed player. Like this is part of your magic. This makes you who you are. There is nothing wrong with you. And these are the things that we have to work on in order to- Yeah be part of a team, or in order to be able to be allowed to step foot on the court. A lot of times it comes down to strong boundaries, which is where compassionate discipline comes in. And, um, you gotta work on it if you wanna be part of this team, and there's nothing wrong with you. Yeah, I love that. Okay, Wendy, this was great. Learned a lot as a parent, as a coach. Can you please let our listeners know where they can find more about you, mention your book again, all those good things? Yes. Yes. Thank you so much. So Fresh Start Your Family is available anywhere books are sold, and, uh, once you do get the book, it's just $22 right now. It's actually on sale on Amazon for 18% off, but Amazon- Oh, great does, like, random sales here and there. Whenever this comes out, you can check. Um, and then once you order, come over to our book page, freshstartfamilyonline.com/book, 'cause we have some great bonuses that we're offering families who order the book. Come find me on Instagram. I'm @freshstartwendy. And then we do have a podcast called The Fresh Start Family Show where Terry and I have, my husband and I, um, and we- we've interviewed a gazillion authors and experts over the years in the powerful parenting world. But Terry and I have done so many episodes. If we have 350 episodes, him and I have probably done maybe, like, almost 200 together- Wow where we just talk fully about, um, our own family dynamics and what it's like to raise a strong-willed child, especially a strong-willed child into this season of reaching their dreams and accomplishing, um, you know, this huge recruiting feat that less than 1% of high school athletes attain to play Division I in college. It's a pretty cool stat. So come listen to the podcast, The Fresh Start Family Show. And then last thing I will say is if you wanna just dive in, um, get in the classroom with me. If you do have a strong-willed child and you're like, "I wanna learn these strategies. How do you actually put these to play into real life?" I do offer an interactive free workshop called Three Secrets to Thriving with Strong-Willed Kids, and that's freshstartfamilyonline.com/secrets. Awesome. Okay. Well, I'll link all of that. Thank you. Um, but thank you, Wendy, so much for sharing so generously with our community. I really loved having you on. I loved being here. This was such a great conversation. Thank you for the work that you do. Um, it is really important, and, um, just grateful to be here.