Welcome, Sumer, to the Raise the Elite Competitor and the Coach Your Game podcast. So I actually just met Sumer right before this because Kelly, who actually works for us as well, is our mutual friend. So she connected us, and Kelly was raving about you, Sumer, and just said that we definitely needed to have a conversation because you are an entrepreneur, you're a coach, you're a former athlete, you are a child development professional for nearly 30 years, and you have built nationally recognized all-star cheerleading programs, which is pretty phenomenal. So welcome to the podcast, and Kelly, thank you if you're listening, for introducing us. Yes, thank you very much. I'm really happy to have the opportunity to be here. Okay. So before we get into everything I have planned and all the questions I have for you, just give us an insight into your world right now. Like, what does a typical week look like for you? What are you doing? Okay. I own a competitive all-star cheerleading gym, and right now we actually just finished up with our tryouts. So we are in full swing at the beginning of our season, which means there's a lot of conditioning, a lot of drills, just getting everyone prepared. And then on top of that, I just started coaching a brand-new program, a high school program. I haven't coached high school in several years. It's a very different world for me, but I'm back in it, and it's a program that I'm kicking off. They've had other coaches in the past, but now we're, trying to shift the culture to be a little bit more of a competitive side cheerleading program at that school. So it's gonna be a project. Oh, yeah, that's really cool. So what are some main things, like when you say you're trying to shift the culture a little bit or try things that you've done in club, in high school. Like, what are the things that you're changing? So one of the biggest things is typically in the all-star cheerleading world, there is this, culture of coaches, being a little bit more aggressive, they use screaming as their first way of communicating with athletes. I think sarcasm is probably a big thing that we see in coaching a lot of times, especially when you have coaches that are younger or don't have the experience. They tend to have a culture of, you know, wanting to be like one of the kids, and they wanna be cool, and they wanna be liked. And, um, a lot of that doesn't really separate you as a coach and as a friend, and I think it muddies the water. So I think that what we really try to do is lead our athletes in a way that shows that we can, push them, and we can hold them accountable, and we can have a standard, but we can do it in a way that is nurturing and respectful. And it also cultivates a culture of where they are going to be respectful towards their teammates. Mm-hmm. A lot of times what we s- see, especially with girls, is that, you know, there's this sense of cattiness unfortunately in cheerleading. There's this cattiness and there's this drama, and it's, a lot of times it's very negative. Mm-hmm. And so we're trying to shift and change that dialogue. We're trying to, um, take it into more of a positive direction and show people that you really can create successful programs and champion-minded athletes in a very, in a respectful way. It doesn't have to be like it used to be. Yeah. Okay, that's, that's great. I'm, I'll be curious to hear how this all goes. Yeah, yeah. It's gonna, it's gonna be interesting, 'cause we've been doing it and we've noticed a change in our gym culture. Mm-hmm. So this is the first time we're kind of stepping out into, a different realm. These, athletes that we're working with will have been coached differently, and so it's gonna be really interesting to see if what we have been doing in our own gym can also be translated into a culture that's never experienced it. Which makes me interested as a coach. I mean, coaching is co- good coaching is good coaching no matter, like, where you are. But there's definitely a culture of club versus high school. We're gonna rewind the clock a little bit and go back to you as an athlete yourself, where you're just growing up. For those that are listening that aren't aware, we have an initiative, around The Elite Competitor called Play. Stay. Lead. So it really drives everything that we do and all the programs that we have for athletes, for coaches, because we want girl athletes to play sports, stay in their sport, so not quit, so that they can become leaders in their lives, which clearly you are. And so we love to bring people on the podcast who have demonstrated this. So let's go back to where it started. What was your sport life as a child growing up? I started very young. I started in the gymnastics realm. I did gymnastics for, gosh, I would wanna say like five or six years. And then when I got into high school, I went into their dance team, and I did dance. That was the first time I had really, like, been in a team sport. 'Cause in gymnastics it's, even though they say you're on a team, like, you're really- Right you're competing for yourself, you know? Yeah. So, um, I went into dance. We, I did that competitively for about three years. After that I shifted into cheerleading, and I didn't start high school cheerleading until my junior year, I believe. And then it wasn't until I got into college that I really got to experience all-star cheerleading. My coach coached at the college level, and he also had an all-star gym. I had never heard of it before 'cause at that time, I'm a little older, at that time it had just come out. It was very, very much brand new. So I- Yeah started with him and I instantly fell in love with it. I loved the concept of competing. I loved the idea behind really pushing yourself and not just being like a spirit leader that's trying to, you know, get the crowd pumped up, which there's a need for that, too. Mm-hmm. I really enjoyed the competitive aspect of that. And from there, I just couldn't stop. I've been doing it ever since. Most people from the cheer world know the difference, but, can you explain just for those that don't what the difference is between, cheerleading and all-star cheerleading? Yeah. So what most people know of cheerleaders is the rah rah, pom-poms. Mm-hmm. They're standing, on the track in front of the football team, and they're trying to get the crowd to cheer with them and to pump up the team. All-star cheerleading is a lot different than that. I would say it's a combination of stunting, acrobatics, and- Mm-hmm the floor tumbling of gymnastics and- Yeah dance. So that's really more of what it is. We do not lead any type of crowd. We're not trying to get any crowd to cheer for a team. We're there to demonstrate skills and execute skills with a certain level of perfection, and we get scored on that. And there's different categories to it. There's tumbling, there's stunting, there is, jumps, and there's dance. All of those components make up a two-minute and 30-second routine, and it is very fast-paced. It's very aerobic. We've had football players that will come in, and we'll, they'll try one practice with us, and they're like, "Nope, this is way harder than football." That sounds awesome, and a lot of fun. And we ha- we do have a lot of all-star cheerleaders in our mental training program, so I get to see it from their perspective, and the perfectionism that you mentioned, it's definitely there. I mean, 'cause you kind of have to be. It's similar to gymnastics in that in with gymnastics, like, they're looking for perfect technique. Mm-hmm. And, um, that's pretty much what all-star cheerleading is, I love hearing your journey a little bit. I'm gonna ask a question that came up because of what you mentioned on your, on your intake form. So you shared, that you didn't have a whole lot of guidance growing up. So low income, parents were a little bit absent from the athletic development side. College wasn't really, like, a thing that was discussed. So looking back, um, what do you think was actually missing when you were exploring this as you were growing up? I think just direction and guidance. Mm-hmm. Uh, during my time, my parents just, you know, college wasn't necessarily on the radar for them. And so- Yeah you know, growing up in a lower income area, it was really about survival. It was how are we gonna make the next paycheck? How are we gonna pay our bills? How are we gonna put food on the table? The last thing that they're worried about is money to spend to send your kids to college. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And, um, so I think really what was just missing was it was just society at that time, and being, um, low income. When you're low income, you're just trying to survive. Yeah, for sure. And I think a lot of moms who are listening to this will hear this and be like, "Well, I, I show up. Like, I'm there. I'm, I'm present," which, I mean, matters a lot, and we can't underestimate that. Um, but what we often talk to moms about is that being present and then equipping your athlete for what's happening on the inside are two different jobs. And you mentioned, before when we were chatting, you do coach the mental side of the game in your athletes. So what do you think that guidance looks like on the mental side from the parent perspective? Like, yes, there's the showing up, and there's being present, and there's all of that. From your child development lens what do you understand about what's missing on the mental side of things? I think everyone needs to know their role in the young athlete. I think that parents- unknowingly sometimes will put added pressure, and they're doing it with the best intentions because they want to encourage, they want to inspire, they want to show that, "I've got your back no matter what." And I think that sometimes the roles of the coach and the parent get a little bit muddied. Mm-hmm. I think that, parents definitely have a very strong role. I think a positive, supportive parent is someone that's going to, first of all, put their athlete in the place where they're gonna be heard and seen. Mm-hmm. Most times coaches are looking for the kids that are naturally talented. It's very few coaches that will see a kiddo for who they are and see that, okay, this kiddo has a long journey ahead of them. So they'll set expectations that are maybe out of reach. Tumbling and gymnastics and cheerleading, and any sport really, if, to be good at anything is a journey. And parents need to be able to embrace that journey a lot of times we'll see parents that are unknowingly trying to do right by their kids by pushing them into harder and harder and harder levels, and what they don't understand is although kids may be able to physically do the skills, it is completely different than their brain understanding what's happening. It takes a while for the brain to really catch up to the physical ability, a lot of kids naturally can do things that, require strength, but they don't really understand what they're doing. Where do my eyes spot? How is my body supposed to feel? What am I supposed to be doing? Just because they can physically do it is very different than them mentally understanding how to make it happen consistently. That's so important to understand. There's a lot going on up there that, is beyond just the physical ability to be able to execute the skills. Right. Mentally there's a lot happening. Going back to your experience, you had to figure this out all on your own, right? Yeah. Like, it was you navigating it. What do you think that cost you? An opportunity or how you saw yourself? Like, your, your- All of that you were kind of doing it. All of that. I think that- it took me a lot longer to progress- Mm because I didn't realize, I... So there's that fixed versus growth mindset, right? We teach this- Yeah a lot in our class. The first 15 minutes of all of our practices we call classroom, because we talk about the mental side of things. Mm. So I think that I was delayed in my growth because I really thought, "Well, if I can't do this on the first couple tries, I just can't do this. I'm not, this is what I wasn't meant to do." Mm. And I didn't have anyone behind me saying, "No, you can do it, it's just, it's gonna take you years to learn this." And so what- Yeah I thought, I would see people doing something, and if I couldn't do it within the first, like, I don't know, week, maybe if I couldn't do it in the first 10 tries- Mm in, in my opinion, I was just never gonna be able to do this. And so I think what, and not having that direction cost me, some, yeah, missed opportunities. Just not being able to progress to my full potential, in order to get to where I wanted to be. Yeah. Yeah. And to be honest- I think even the parents that are, like, they're showing up and they're doing things. They're providing the opportunities for their athletes to train. This still can be missed because not a lot of coaches do what you're doing and spending, 15 minutes before practice talking about the mental side of the game. So, this still can be something that athletes are missing out on even with parents that are, like, present and, doing the, quote, "right thing." I think that's great that you also are providing them with this opportunity to train this side of the game. We don't wanna put it all on parents- Right because they, they can't. Like, the parents actually can't be in their athlete's brain out on the mat with them, saying all those things. Right. So you're actually giving them the tools to be able to do it. Yes. That's exactly what we're doing, yeah. So in those moments when they're about to step onto the, the stage, you know, there's the curtain in front of them, and for the most part, like, it even just gives me chills to think about it because- Mm-hmm it's such a big thing. We coach kids from ages 4 years old up to 18 years old. Mm-hmm. And imagine the curtain opens and there's hundreds and hundreds of people watching them. That is a lot of pressure to put on a kiddo, and so we give them the tools on, okay, this is how your body's gonna feel. When your body feels this way, this is what it means. These are the tools that you can handle it. And it's something that is underestimated by parents sometimes. I think that, um, if they've never been on stage before and they've never competed like that, they don't understand the actual feelings. And so sometimes parents will be like, "You got it. You're great. You can do this," you know? Mm-hmm. Positive thinking only, but in reality, that can actually hinder an athlete because if your parent is telling you, "Oh my gosh, you guys got this. Just go out there and just, you're gonna do so good," w- in their head- Mm-hmm you know, kids at that age, they want to please everybody. So in their head- Mm-hmm "Well, what happens if I don't do good?" Mm-hmm. "Wait, what happens if I, what happens if I do mess up?" Yeah. "And now I'm gonna let down my coach. I'm gonna let down my mom. People are gonna think these things of me." And so, um, so that's just a lot of things that we start teaching the kids on how to handle these things and when, and to be very mindful about the thoughts that you allow into your head from the time- Mm-hmm that they wake up in the morning. That's great. Well, when did it click for you? When did you realize that the mental game and this side of it was the difference maker? Um, I would say for me as a competitor, I really struggled with the mental part of it backstage. Um, I would be backstage and I would have all these nerves and I, and it would appear to me that my, none of my teammates felt the same way. They may have, but they didn't say it. And I couldn't control my nerves. I would get sick. I would get dizzy. I would sometimes, like, forget what I was doing. Um, and then when I would get on stage, it was just like, "Oh my gosh, here I am," and all of those things, concepts would come into my head. What if I don't hit this? What if we lose? What if I cause my team to do this? Those are real fears. And, um, and then- Fast forward, I had my children, my own children. Mm-hmm. And my son was going through i- the exact same things that I would go through backstage, and that's when I was like, "Oh, man, we have to figure out a way to get this, like, under control for him," because I remembered going through that and I didn't want him to lose the love of it because if you can't control those emotions, it makes being competitive really hard. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Okay, so then how did you get these tools? It sounds like you were kind of white-knuckling it through as an athlete. Can you speak to maybe tools that you picked up or how that happened, or, how you were able to now figure this out for your own athletes, for your own kids? What was that journey like? Well, I'll say that, I just started looking out to different books. Mm-hmm. Um, I think there, there was a book, and I can't remember who wrote it unfortunately. Mm-hmm. Um, I think it was Jeff Benson, actually. He wrote a book called The Walls Come Tumbling Down, and it was a book about, mental blocks. Hmm. And so I read that book and I started sharing it with my son, and I started sharing it, um, with my daughter, who was also going through some mental blocks. And so I think that was my first exposure to like, wait a minute, like, there's ways to manage this. And so that was the first, one of the first books I read. And then eventually, um, just going online and just finding other tools and other... Uh, meditation. Mm-hmm. I found through meditation and box breathing, that was a way to kind of control my heart rate backstage. And so sure enough, backstage we have our kids doing box breathing because we're trying to- Mm regulate their breathing backstage. So just, I think just here and there. Obviously, the internet was a, and social media's been a big tool to find these things, but I think it started with the book. It really is the thing that, that connects it all, that, allows athletes' physical work to pay off because it's typically not a lack of talent or ability or training. I mean, sometimes it is, but for the most part, the athletes that we're working with in our program too are, like, training. They're putting in the hours. They're working their tails off. And it's like, ugh, all that doesn't matter if you can't actually, perform and do it when it matters. Right. So. Where do you see your athletic foundation showing up right now in your adult life? So everything from building programs, which you still are doing, um, entrepreneurship, raising a family. Like, where is this showing up for you? Well, it's a bi- it's a big part of my life. Mm-hmm. It's pretty much everything I do at this point, um, is kind of revolved around that. Just knowing that it takes time and it's a journey not only helped me raise my kids, um, both my kids are... I mean, they're at nationally recognized programs for- Mm-hmm their sport. And, um, I think it's just shown me that there's just a better way of doing things, and we can get to the same destination, but we can just do it in a better way. What about in, entrepreneurship, like building what you have right now. How did being an athlete help you with that? Well, I think it gave me the perseverance to just keep pushing through. Mm-hmm. Um, even with the business when I first started, it was kind of the same thing. I really, I knew what I wanted to do, but I didn't really have much guidance on how to do it because my parents weren't entrepreneurs. I was just, I decided one day, like, "I wanna open a cheerleading gym," you know? Mm-hmm. Building my, business is much like building a competitor, and I use this analogy with my kids. Think about your competitive life as a big rock. You get this rock, and throughout your life, you're gonna get tools, and you're gonna start chiseling away at this rock. And eventually, as you go through life and experiences, you're making a sculpture of yourself. And so you use the little papers, and you sand it, and you polish it, and eventually you come to this, the sculpture of where you know your life can be. And that's kind of what I did with my business. I think that in and of itself helped shape and encouraged me to continue moving forward. So even as an entrepreneur, I can see people who have the same type of competitive cheerleading gym, but their way of doing things is not the way I want to do things. Mm-hmm. And it's just like, um, being a competitor. What works for Susie, what I tell her to learn a skill may not work for Jennifer, you know? What I hope moms are hearing as they're listening, like, sport allows us to be able to do those things. I don't think I would be an entrepreneur, I don't think I would be successful, um, in, in the things that I've chosen to do if I wouldn't have played sports. I mean- Yeah it's hard to, it's hard to tell, right? But it definitely teaches you some things along the way, and instills some of those values. Like, even the value of figuring it out and being adaptable, because being an entrepreneur is, like, all about just, like, solving problems, right And like- Yeah you've got your vision, and the- there's no, like, clear steps on how to get there, so you've just gotta do it. You gotta figure it out. I've found that even now that I've been doing this business for a while, the kids that I've coached for several years, now they're in college and they've graduated from college, my best employees were former athletes. Mm-hmm. Or even at that, um, just generally speaking, many of the athletes that we do coach, they go on to get upper level jobs because they know how to be leaders, they know how to problem solve, they know how to be resilient. The- even more than that, they know how to take criticism and not take it personally. And so I think they end up becoming better employees, and those are probably the ones starting their own businesses. Yeah, for sure. Which is why we need girls to stay in sports. Yes. Parents that are listening and coaches that are listening, like, that's why we need to do the things to keep them in sports. Yes. And the mental side of it is one of those things that you could be doing so they're not, like, you know, beating themselves up and wanting to quit, and then don't get the opportunity to actually use their skills outside of sports. I do wanna ask a question switching kind of back to the coach side of things. Okay. So, um, I know we've gone a lot of different places. But, um, now I want you to think, like, through the coach lens. What worries you most about girls in sports right now that some people miss? That's a good question. I think that's hard. I think maybe the drive and the work ethic and just kind of like, I mean, it really just goes back to them knowing that they really can do anything that they wanna do. And I really do think it's that fixed versus growth mindset. I just know that once I started changing that in my own gym- Mm-hmm people just started taking off. And so, um, I think a lot of times, like boy sports is definitely catered to. You see all types of different programs that are gonna train and do all of this for boy sports, and I don't think girls typically have that. I think that there's this thing in society- Mm-hmm where we think that girls are these little delicate creatures, but I mean, we're not. Mm-hmm. We're strong. I mean, we are different than boys, you're right. But we- Mm-hmm we are strong and we're determined, and put in the right hands, like w- we can be very competitive, some- you know, dangerous- Yeah to be around. So I think that, um, I think that's what's missing. I think that we tend to think that all girls are just like these little princesses and their feelings are delicate, but we're not. We're strong, and we're only delicate if you tell us that we're delicate. That was really well said. So I love that. And especially with cheer though, you know, somebody says cheer, it's like, oh, no, that's not just like rah, rah. Especially all-star cheer This is very tough. This is a very tough sport. Yeah, I think typically cheer is looked at as a very social activity. It's a club. Mm-hmm. Like even the So the high school program I took over, um, they, I would say it's, it was a club. It's an afterschool activity, you know, that no one really thinks of it as anything more than that. And- Mm-hmm girls are known for being social. And then on top of that, a lot of time the social part is like gossip and drama, and let's change that dialogue everyone. We're, that's not what we're about. That's not what we should be about. So true. Okay. In wrapping up, um, Sumer, what do you want the mom who listened to this whole episode, so they're still with us, to walk away knowing? I would say to that mom, You are going to be your athlete's biggest cheerleader. Trust your coaches. The first thing you need to do is figure out is my coach doing right by my kiddo? You need to put your trust in them. And your job is to, when they get in the car, love on them. They're gonna have bad days, for sure. There's gonna be times where they're crying. That's just how it works. Your job is to say, "Okay, is it always like this? Okay, it's not, it's not always like this. Okay, let's reconnect in 24 hours. Let's see how we're feeling after all of the hard feelings have dissipated." And then that's when you're like, "Okay, how are you feeling today? Okay, it was just a bad day. I bet you today's gonna be better." Mm-hmm. That's the job of a parent, is to support if you trust your coaches, you gotta let them do the work, and you've got to follow what they're saying. Don't rush your kid through a sport just for the sake of leveling up everyone's journey's different. Your kid might develop a little bit slower than others. They will get there. As long as you support your athlete and you trust in your coaching, be their cheerleader, feed them good food, um, make sure they get rest, get them to their practices, and love on them, that's your job. And as long as you trust your coach and you believe in them, then let them do their job. Yeah. Okay, that was great. Well, Sumer, thank you. I really appreciate you coming on, sharing just your story, sharing your insights. I hope that the coaches and the parents and even the athletes that are listening to this will walk away feeling inspired and encouraged, so thank you again. Oh, and thank you so much for having me. I enjoyed being here.