If you've ever felt stuck watching your daughter navigate friendship, drama, or teammate drama on her team or your coach trying to figure out how to handle the tension without making it worse, then this episode is for you because who hasn't been there as a coach or as a parent? Today I'm talking with Sherry, who founded Teen Wise about 15 years ago after working in psychology for about 30 years. She specializes in helping teen girls navigate friendships, team dynamics. And all the drama that comes with it. And here's the thing, Sherry was recently a guest expert on one of our Level Up calls for athletes inside the Elite mental game. So we have two calls a month for athletes who are going through our mental training program, and one of those calls we bring in a guest expert. And Sherry came in and she taught to our girls 10 responses that you can have. When dealing with mean girls, it was so helpful and, um, the girls had so many questions and she, Sherry just so generously shared, so, so much with these girls. It was so helpful. So I knew I had to have her on the podcast to talk about this stuff with you. Um, with parents, with coaches who are trying to help athletes through this as well. So in this conversation, we're recovering the most common types of drama that girls face right now. The early warning signs that friendship issues are affecting your daughter and what to do when she's being excluded or left out. The top three mistakes that parents make when trying to help their daughters, because instincts often make things worse. I know that firsthand, and if you're a coach listening, Sherry has some really practical guidance for you too, um, including how to be proactive instead of reactive when team drama shows up. So this is one of those conversations. Where you'll probably hear yourself in some examples. In fact, I gave plenty of examples as a parent and as a coach. So I know you're gonna enjoy this episode and get a lot out of it. So enjoy this episode with Shari. All right, Shari, welcome to the podcast, the Raising Elite Competitors podcast. But this is also going on the coach or game podcast. So to the podcast. Welcome. I'm glad I'm here, lot to talk about. Yeah, we do have a lot to talk about. Um, if our level up call that Sherry was on recently with our athletes, uh, we do these calls, um, once a month where we bring in a guest speaker, if that's any indication of how this conversation's gonna go. There's gonna be a lot, a lot to talk about. The girls were peppering Sherry with all of their teen team tween drama, and to the point where actually we ran outta time and Sheri so generously recorded. A whole like video answering their questions that we didn't get to. So thank you for that, by the way. Very welcome. And I, I was amazed at how willing they were to share what they were going through. So I, I wanted to respect that and, and, uh, respond to all of their questions. Yeah, that was great. Well, um, Sherry, will you introduce yourself and a little bit about what you do? Absolutely. So I founded Teen Wise about 15 years ago or so, and I've been in the psychology industry for like 30 ish years. And one of the reasons I wanted to start teen wise with a focus on female friendships, specifically teen friendships, is because I saw that there was. Something missing as far as support for girls. It was a lot of people waiting until clinical anxiety and depression that was being caused or driven by social, um, strife. And so I just wanted to get to these girls before that because when girls lift each other up, the world is a much better place. So I work with them. As you know, in private coaching, I do presentations in communities and podcasts, all sorts of things. Whatever I can do to reach moms and to reach their daughters. Oh my gosh. I love your mission and I'm, it's so, so important. I'm sure you get told that all the time. Um, because, you know, the moms that are listening are like, there would be no one listening that hasn't encountered some sort of, uh, drama with their daughter and friendships and navigating that. I mean, to be honest, my daughter's seven. She just came to me. Last night and was like, ah, I just don't, I feel like this one of her friends that's actually been her, one of her closest friends for a while, um, I feel like we're drifting apart and Aw. Um, you know, she, every time I try and talk to her, she gives me a face and then she runs away and I'm like, oh my gosh, this is, she's seven. Um, this is, yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I'm like, I, I honestly was kind of at a loss, like for,'cause my instinct is probably what. You hear a lot of parents, um, say is like, well, why is she doing that? You know, like, this is Yeah. You know, kind of like her fault and, you know, that's a bad friend. It was kinda what I wanted to say, but I'm like, no, no, no, that's, that's not, I gotta figure out differently. I love it. I love that you stop yourself.'cause Yeah. I mean, the first instincts a lot of moms have is, well, she's not a good friend anyway. Mm-hmm. And, um, I mean, that's not always the case. Sometimes they're just learning how to be a good friend. Yes, exactly. So, okay, well we've got, um, a lot that we could dive into and if you are a mom or a dad listening, you're in the right place. But also if you're a coach, so I'm also a coach. We know that one of the biggest challenges that we have in helping our teams perform isn't actually the physical game. It's like it getting all of these different personalities to work together and navigate through the team drama. And I. Had some of that this season too. I mean, every season it's a thing. It's like these skills though are really like the difference makers when it comes to teens that bond and thrive and perform in ones that don't. So I'm excited to dive into a little bit of that too, and I think moms will find that interesting to hear. But let's just start here. What are, um, the most common types of drama or friendship challenges that you're seeing? Girls face right now. I have a list of about 20 to start, but let me just talk about the, the most common ones I see. Um. So we have to remember that girls are learning how to have deeper friendships and deeper connections on teams. It's not always a friendship, sometimes it's just a peer-to-peer relationship, right? But so one of the things that happens when they don't understand how to navigate the conflict that's coming up or the tension is that's where this behavior comes in, that we all term mean girl behavior. Uh, they want to be nice, ironically, and because they want to be nice, it ends up in the relational aggression realm. So that is ex. Excluding and that they're not gonna talk it out. They're just gonna stop talking or give those side glances as your daughter's noticing because they don't know how to say, Hey, we're not getting along, or Let's talk this out. So I would say exclusion is a big one. Gossiping is a big one because gossiping is natural for us. It's a way to catch up. It's a way to connect. It's when the gossiping comes from a negative intention that it's a problem. Uh, we also see the isolation. So this is when girls are actually withdrawing because of all of the, the, um, relational aggression going on. Um, there's, there's just so much. I mean, I could list them all out, but I think when, when we talk about girl drama, um, I think we all know the feel of it versus just all the behaviors. Yeah, true. You know exactly how it feels as a parent, as a coach. Um, one thing I do, I don't wanna jump too far ahead, but it's just top of mind because my season just ended and one of the things that we tried to talk about a lot, but obviously didn't do a good job of. Actually implementing structures to help athletes with these skills. Mm-hmm. Was talked to the person, not about the person, and people were like, yeah, yeah, that's a great idea. Talk to the person, not about the person. Like, that's gonna be a thing that we do this season. Yeah. But then it ended up being the thing we didn't do this season and um, you know, end of season evaluations came around and meetings and from every single girl. I heard that there was a lot of talking behind each other's backs and gossiping and all of this. So why is it so hard? I mean, I can, I can be, well, obviously I didn't give'em skills to like talk to you, the person, but, um, good enough skills like that. But like, why is it like, even when we have the, we have intentions to do this, why is it that we just default to, or girls default to like, I, I don't wanna say just girls, it's his adult behavior too, but you know, talking about them. Instead, like, why does that still happen? Even though we're like trying to work on it? Yeah. So the first thing I wanna say is when we tell girls to talk it out, we've gotta give'em the structure to do that. Mm-hmm. Um, I actually have a webinar that's four coaches on how to instruct the girls to do this, but it basically comes down to four steps. You have to affirm the relationship. You have to say, I feel this way because this is happening. Mm-hmm. Think about is there any ownership that you might have in it? If so, then you say sorry for that. And then the fourth most important piece is you're actually seeking a solution. So you don't wanna just go to talk to a girl to say, you did this wrong, or this is bad, or, you know, I, I don't like everything you're doing. You need to go seeking a solution. So you've gotta teach them how to have that conflict conversation. Nobody likes to do that as a teen because they're worried about the consequences. Is that girl going to then go and talk bad about her? Is that girl going to even get really sad or get really mad? So we have to also teach them, have these conflict conversations. Here's the formula, let's practice it. And. It's okay if the other person is mad or sad or whatever because they have the right to feel how they feel, and it doesn't mean that you shouldn't have had that conversation. Yeah. Okay. That's great. And we're definitely gonna link that webinar for coaches below, and I need that too. Um, but you're right, we had that where some girls did try to talk and then it caused more problems. Mm-hmm. Then the like, you know, retaliation happened and then they're like, okay, well I'm not gonna do that again. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And so as a coach, you can kind of, if you're teaching everybody on the team to do this. And you're saying, okay, we're gonna work together as a team to make this a safe space where we can all talk about things that come up and we're looking for solutions, then that's really the proactive approach. Talk about it before anything is happening. If things happen, this is how we're gonna deal with it. Um, the other piece that we have to think about is that like the retaliation, why is that happening again? Is because that person doesn't have the skill, um, of accepting that conversation. And also when girls do go and talk about it, if they don't do it in the right way, the other person gets defensive. If you don't start out with that affirmation of the peer-to-peer relationship or the friendship, then the other person it feels like I need to defend myself. If they miss the fourth piece of creating a solution, then it just feels like the girl goes to say, here's what you did wrong, and that doesn't lead to, um, a positive outcome generally. Okay. Um, I'm sure you go over this in the webinar, so you know, there, there's that. I know that it probably goes way deeper, but what's an example of an affirmation of, um, like the friendship? Yeah. If it's, if it's a friendship, it might be, I really like hanging out with you. Something as easy as that. If it's on a team, so maybe they're not actually friends with their teammates. I love being on a team with you. You know, you add so much to the team, so it's not like I love you so much, you know, it's not like that. Yeah. Um, it's just something saying, I'm coming to you because I care about our interactions, rather than I'm coming to you because I need to point out what you're doing wrong. So it just resets, it takes them out of the fight or flight mode and into the connection mode. So, and the affirmation will create a surge of oxytocin, especially peer-to-peer for teens, which allows a connection. Yeah. Okay. I really like that. Um, one thing that popped up, I'm sorry, I'm just going where my brain is going right now. By the way. I have all these questions that I haven't hit yet. Um, but as we practice that framework, like in a team setting, I could see some people being like. You're just following the framework, like you don't actually, you know, is that ever a concern? Like do people, can people see that as like fake if they're like, okay, you have to start with this whole affirmation thing. Well, I think that with practice it doesn't come across as, um, formulaic and teens are very good about picking up on the, on formulas, right? I always tell parents, I'm gonna teach you a method and then now you need to make it natural and organic, right. So for teens, what I tell them is, I'm gonna teach you this method, now you need to go put it into teen language. Right. Okay.'cause I typically, a teen's not gonna say, I feel disappointed because you did this. That sounds formulaic. Yeah. So I teach them the formula and then we work on let's create this in your own voice and in teen talk, so to speak. Okay. Yeah. That's great. Um, and then the last piece, the solution, um, when can we. Assume that they have the strategies and the skills to come up with a solution. And then when is it like a coach or a parent might need to step in? The example I'll give is like, you know, one player has, I guess the inter their interactions on the court were not positive. Like mm-hmm. They made a mistake, she felt like somebody was turning their back on her, and so like these little subtle messages were happening. And so I guess this besides the obvious solution of like, stop doing that. I don't know what else, what else could they come up with together? Yeah, so first of all, it's okay for parents and coaches to see that behavior and also come in with a conflict conversation, right? You could come in and say, oh my gosh, I love what you're doing on the court. You're such a powerful player. Um, I really feel like. You know, confused about when you're doing this certain behavior on the court, and I'm sorry that I haven't taught you a different way to do it, or I haven't pointed it out before. Um, this is what I think could work for you, which would be good for you as a teammate, would be good for you in your peer-to-peer relations, you know, and tell them what that is. You see how even as a coach you can use that four, those four steps. Yes. Right. Okay. I love that. Yeah. And then the other piece is that, um, if it is peer to peer, then you take the girls separately and you are teaching them this, this formula, right? So if there was a girl who comes to you and says, I'm really upset about, you know, Tanya, who's turning her back on me. If she's being rude to me on court, you don't just say, go talk to her and use the formula. You say, okay, well remember our formula. How do you think that you can walk through that? What is the solution that you're looking for? And the solution is not just pointing out, you're doing this to me. It's, I would really rather you talk to me if you're upset with me. I would love for you to pass the ball if you see that I'm open, whatever those solutions are. Again, it's not in a a negative way, it's in a, Hey, let's. Let's figure this out together. Sometimes the solution is asking the other person for the solution, right? Mm-hmm. Um, I'm not sure what we can do to make this better. How can we work this out? Okay. That's great. Okay. I think that's awesome. Let's, let's move a little bit to like the parent side. And I know coaches that are listening. You're also parents, a lot of you, so. Mm-hmm. Um, yeah. So most sports moms, they can obviously sense when things are a little bit off with their daughters. So like the quiet car ride home or like the sudden moods shift and things like that. Um, what do you see as like early warning signs that friendship, drama might be affecting her? Mm-hmm. And then how do we respond without like. Making it worse. Yeah. So if we're talking about, like in the, the team world or the sports world, one of the things you'll notice is that they don't wanna go to practice. More and more. They're complaining about it. They have a stomach ache, they have a headache, um, their leg hurts. Uh, they, you aren't seeing them find the joy. In that sport anymore. Most of the time it has nothing to do with the sport. It has everything to do with the dynamics of the team, and I'm sure that you've seen that as well. Mm-hmm. Um, that where everybody starts the season, they're all excited, and then sometimes there's a shift where the, the whole dynamic is a little bit toxic and there's just the joy is missing up. For the coaches, for the parents, and for the teens, for everybody involved. When this drama is coming up, it's just, you can feel it because there's tension and there's that lack of joy. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. That's huge. And so once you, um, once parents start to, so they pick up on it and they're like, okay, yes. Like di and maybe they're even noticing it themselves, like the, the teammate dynamic is not great. Um. And let's say that they hear specifically from their daughter that like they're having a hard time with one of their teammates or multiple. I think there's a lot of angles we could take here, but let's say it is like one, one person that they're like, I cannot, I'm, I'm having our time. They're being really negative to me. What I see is like, they're negative, they're rude, they're ignoring me, they're whatever. Yeah. What would be like. How, how should a parent respond in that moment? Yeah. If the, their daughter comes out and says they're being rude, they're being, you know, all of these things, listing them out, the first thing you wanna do is listen, uh, the most that you can get them to talk instead of asking a lot of questions, just kind of when they say that you can either leave some silence. Or you can say, tell me about that. Like, uh mm-hmm. Or you could say, I'm seeing a little bit of that, but tell me what you're seeing or Tell me how you're experiencing it so that you're getting them to talk. Just talking it out a lot of times can be enough for them to get through it. Uh, we also need to remember as a parent that we don't want to start badmouthing the girls. We don't wanna start badmouthing the coaches saying they should be handling it or badmouthing the parents. Um, it's not gonna be helpful for your daughter if you start doing that. What you wanna do is focus on supporting her through it versus talking about everybody else. And we also as parents have to remember, what can your daughter control versus. What can she change about her own self too? Um, and I should say versus, sorry, versus trying to change everybody else on the team. Right. Um, and a lot of the drama comes from not the behaviors that are going on, but from the thoughts that the girls are having. That's true. So let me, let me repeat this again because it's so, so important. The impact of girl drama is from the thoughts that girls have when things happen. So if somebody, for example, if you and I were walking down the street and somebody came up and said something horrible to us, if we looked at each other and laughed and kept walking along, our day is not messed up. Our year is not messed up. Right? If somebody came up and said something awful to us, and then you and I start co ruminating about what that person said, and then we're thinking we're bad people, or What's wrong with us? Then those words have power over us. So it depends on how we're thinking about it. And for me, in private coaching, that is a big thing I work on with girls. Not how are we gonna change all of the dynamics that you're in, but how are you going to think about it? And then how are you gonna respond? Hmm. Okay. Yeah, that's really powerful because I also see as a coach that a lot of girls feel like they don't have any power. They're like, mm-hmm. This other person is saying and doing these things, and unless I change them, it's just gonna, my situation is gonna stay. How it is exactly. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And so we, as the adults in the room, we have to teach them that that's not the case. They do have power, not over that person. Mm-hmm. But they have power over how they're going to let it affect them. And moving forward how they show up to practice. Are they gonna stop going to practice? Are they gonna start disconnecting from the rest of the team because that one girl is not so nice? That's where their power comes in. Great. Okay. I think that's great. Where my mind kind of goes sometimes is there obviously is a balance of this, so where does it cross the line where there's, you know, maybe there's like some bullying, it's like crossing the line to bullying or you know, we don't just wanna tell girls all the time like, well, it's your responsibility to just like change your mindset about it when really. There needs to be some accountability. Absolutely. You know, so where's that line? Yeah. And I think the difference here, what you're talking about is when you are the coach of a team versus when you are the parent on a team, right? Mm-hmm. Because as a parent, your, your responsibility first and foremost is to support your own daughter. Um, so you start there with that support system, and when you're seeing the whole team is just, there's this toxic team dynamic. Then the parent can go to the coach again using the same formula. Right. Yeah. I love that you're, you know, I love your, your methods and I love that you're spending so much time with the team. You're doing a fantastic job. I really feel like I am confused as to why the team is so toxic or why this particular thing is allowed, and then going to seeking the solution. So as a parent, that's how you would come in if you see the whole dynamic. Is really awful, right? Um. Mm-hmm. Even if it's one person, let's say there is someone on the team that's bullying your own daughter, you're gonna do the same thing. You're gonna go to the coach for support, looking for that support, looking for that solution, not looking and saying, how can you allow this to happen? Not going in with a finger pointing, you're going in. Looking for a collaboration as a coach. If you're seeing this toxic environment or if there is one person who's a bully, you need to take care of it. You can't just say, well just deal with it. Right? Yeah. And in that, I go over this in the coaching webinar, again, it's, you don't wanna sit the team down and say, Hey everybody, this is going on. What you wanna do is look at the girl who's doing the bullying behavior. She needs support. Anyone who is acting out, there's thoughts going on in that girl's head that is, that is creating these behaviors. So she may feel insecure, she may feel like she's being ousted from the group, so she needs to start doing these negative behaviors. Mm-hmm. Um, so we can give that person the support she needs and deserves. And the person who's the target of the bullying give them support that she needs and she deserves. So it's two separate people. Don't bring them together to figure this out. You figure it out separately and then at some point, if possible, you bring them together. Okay. Yeah, that's really helpful because what I see, and honestly as a coach I've done before is I get everyone together and I'm like, okay, the bullying needs to stop, and everyone's like. It's her, you know? Yeah, exactly. Well, yeah. I'll tell you a story of mine. When I was in seventh grade, I was in softball and I, there was the one girl on the team that was just spreading rumors about me. Oh. And they were ridiculous rumors. Mm-hmm. Um, but it affected the team. And so what happened was the coach brought all of us together. So I was sitting there, I felt embarrassed'cause I'm like, everybody knows what they're talking about. Right. And then the girl got even more mad and spread even more rumors. So it just didn't work because the two people who needed the support didn't get it. It was dealt with, uh, in a blanket statement, you know? Yeah. The, the thing that I get caught in, I know this might be very specific, but coaches who are in this situation might relate, and parents too. So hopefully, again, this is like helpful for both sides, but, um. We had a situation this season where I did, like, I, I dealt with it with the party that was responsible for spreading the rumors and, you know, it got resolved and at the end of the season, somebody was like. You know, I really felt like, um, you know, that situation, the coaches didn't have any accountability for the person, or they didn't get in trouble, or they didn't, and I was like, no, actually the opposite. Like, I did hold them accountable and we did have like a very serious conversation and there was change and all of this. So how do you like balance that? Like, you don't wanna bring in the whole team, right? I don't know. But then they, they, it almost was like they lost a little bit of faith in and trust in the coaching because they were like, you were just letting that happen without any accountability. Yeah, this makes me think of my two kids. They're in their twenties now, but when I would give them consequences, I would do it separately and the one kid would go, you didn't even do anything about what she said. You know? Yeah. Like they needed to know, right. What was said or done. Right. So what you can do is you can let people know, we are talking about it, we are dealing with it. Okay. That's all you need to say. Just let them know something's happening and that you are aware of it. Yeah. Okay. That's great. That could, that simple statement could have saved me a lot of money. Maybe not a lot. I mean, it was just, was like, oh, that's interesting. Like I'm trying to avoid a whole team thing and you know, there's always like the pros and cons and the consequences. Yeah. So that's helpful. Okay. One second. Can you hear this, um, leaf blower outside? Are we okay? I heard it for a second, but I don't hear it right now. Okay. I hope, I hope it doesn't get closer. Okay. Sorry to interrupt. That's okay. Um. I was gonna say one of the most painful things that as a parent is painful to watch, painful to be a part of, and I've already kind of experienced a little bit of it with my daughter being only seven is feeling excluded, feeling left out, feeling like they don't connect with their teammates. How do you, how do you help a parent navigate that? Yeah, so what we have to do is we have. To teach our girls how to connect in a different way. And so when that's happening, they're just, they don't have the skills with that particular group to connect. Mm-hmm. So we can give them those skills. And if you've got a shy girl, especially, it's not just go talk to people, it might be how do you relate to people? How do you start conversations? How do you give compliments? How do you insert yourself into a group of girls who are talking already? Uh, a lot of times when girls are like, okay, I'm gonna talk to people, and they, you know, convince themselves to do it, and then they go into a group, it's already having conversation and they derail the conversation and everybody's looking at them with the side eyes like, what is this girl talking about? Right? So we have to give them the skills. And a lot of times what I see is parents will just say, just go talk to people. But they really need a little more guidance than that. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's good.'cause what I, what I often see play out is what you were saying, they feel left out. Mm-hmm. And then they kind of reinforce that behavior. Mm-hmm. Themselves out more. And then they're like, see, I'm left. It's like a, what is that? Self-fulfilling prophecy. Yeah. They, yeah. It goes back to those thoughts, right? When that happens, like a, a practice or two, then they have a limiting belief. Nobody likes me, nobody wants to talk to me. Mm-hmm. Um, nobody's my friend. And that's the filter that then they're walking into every practice with, nobody's gonna talk to me. Guess what? They don't talk to anybody because they are already. Making it happen. Mm-hmm. And so their behaviors really are affected by their thoughts. So we have to get to the bottom of what are the thoughts that are holding them back from connection. Now having said that, I don't wanna say, oh, it's always the girl's fault that she's not connecting. Right. That's not true. Sometimes there's just a group of girls that are not welcoming and so if that's the case, you have to walk them through what does practice look like for you? If you're not one of the gang, um, how are you gonna deal with that? How are you gonna go into practice and still have fun and still make it worth your time and make it something that you really wanna do still? Yeah. Okay. I think that's important too. Do you ever have that conversation? I hear this as an adult, this whole like. Not every friend is your everything friend. Mm-hmm. Like, I don't know, does that come into play at all when, when you think about teammates? Yeah, for sure. For sure. Uh, and I think that one of the things with the girls who are on teams that aren't connecting,'cause I work with some of these girls, right? Yeah. It's like, well, so maybe when you go and you play that sport. You're going to play the sport. It's not the social piece for you. Mm-hmm. And maybe next, next season, you look for a different team where you do feel like you fit in more, but are you enjoying the sport itself? And can you release this idea that your teammates need to be your friends? Maybe that's just what has to happen for that, um, for that season. Yeah. I think that's really powerful because it, I do feel like there's a thought. This isn't necessarily bad, but you know, there is that thought that like if I'm on a team, I need to be really close with the my teammates or at least friends with them, and it's like, eh, you don't have to. Yeah. I mean, that's great because we know that a lot of girls when they drop out of sports, it's because they're not getting the social fulfillment. So we really want that for the girls, but we also want them to understand. You're not gonna be friends with everybody. I can guarantee you that because look at the parents on every team that they've been on. The parents are not all friends either. So you have to realize, you just, you're dropped into this group of girls. Sometimes you're gonna score and have great friends from that. Sometimes you're just gonna have a good peer-to-peer relationship. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Um, as we kind of get. To wrapping this up, I want to first ask when you, let's say the, the parent side of things, we talked about some things that parents can do, some, you know, all of those have been great so far, but what are, like, if you were to narrow it down to like top three mistakes for parents to avoid, you already mentioned one, which was like, don't bad mouth, other. Teammates, other people, coaches and everything like that. I think that's really important. But for you, what would be like the top three mistakes that you see parents make when they're trying to help their daughter navigate this drama? Yeah. Uh, so in my girl drama webinar, I go through these in more detail, but I'll, I'll tell you what they are kind of on a higher level. Yeah. So we've got three key ones that we as parents often fall into that are not so great. Um, and again, when I, when I'm saying this, if you as a parent are doing this. Don't think, oh my gosh, I'm doing awareness is when you can change. So we're gonna look at these things and say, okay, what are we doing? Mm-hmm. So the first is being dramatic. That is, oh my gosh, this is so horrible. All the girls are horrible. You know, just, and your emotions are out of control. You're getting into the drama. Mm-hmm. And a lot of times, especially on teams, I'll see the mama drama come in, or the papa drama. Yeah. That's when the moms are talking about each other. The moms are talking about the other kids. We have to role model for our girls what it looks like. Right. If we don't like people or if we're frustrated with things, we don't start badmouthing people. We don't start being dramatic. Yeah. So that's the one thing we wanna avoid for sure. Um, the second is intrusive behaviors. We don't want to go and try to fix everything to go to the coach, to go to the parents, and to try to deal with it for our daughters because we're robbing them of the opportunity to figure out how to deal with these types of conflicts. It doesn't mean we never get involved like that. No, we never. Or you know, but that shouldn't be the first thing that we do. Um, the third thing is dismissive. And this is what I see a lot. The intention is very good. The whole idea, why do you care what they think? They're not your friends anyway. In 10 years you won't remember any of this. You know, that's really dismissive. And from what I hear from teens whose parents are doing this, they feel like they're not being heard or understood. And it's their life right now. And the emotions are big. Even though we as adults, we're distanced from our teen years, um, they're living it. And so right now they don't care. About 10 years from now, they care about right now how they're feeling and what's going on. So those are the three main, main areas. Mm-hmm. Okay. I think that's, oh, so important because it, I, again, even, even with the little experience that I have as a parent, mean have a lot of experience as a coach with some of this team drama. Um. I, those are kind of our natural instincts to do those three things. Yeah. So it's almost like fighting against that. Exactly. And so those three areas, just to tell you where they come from, is the thousands of hours I've spent with girls talking about this stuff. So, um, it, it's really, they have, they'll stop talking to their parents if they're dramatic, for instance, or if they're intrusive, um, or dismissive. They're like, they don't get it. They don't understand, I'm not gonna tell'em about this anymore. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, ma'am. Um, I think it's one of the hardest, I don't know, it, it's just so hard as a, as a mom, like, you know, I, I don't know. Maybe it's just when I'm. I feel like I've, I've worked with a lot of athletes on this and then when it started coming up, like in my own life, I'm like, oh my gosh. It,'cause it kind of pulls up some stuff for you as Absolutely. Yes. Yes. We, um, we as women, we store our memories with our emotions side by side. Mm-hmm. So when we see our daughters going through things, it totally triggers our old emotions. Mm-hmm. Sometimes we don't really understand why we're so emotional about your daughter not being talked to in school or about a friend going. Going to the mean side, so to speak. Um, it's because maybe we experienced it for some moms. We never experienced it. And so those moms in that category are like, I don't get it. Why aren't the girls just being nice to each other? Right? So sometimes it's triggered in that way as well. So we have to kind of watch what our own thoughts are that are fueling how we're supporting our daughters. Yeah, I think that's important. Like checking in. Do you ever support parents kind of on that side of it? Like what are strategies that you can do in those moments? I mean, absolutely. When I'm working with girls in my private coaching, I work with the parents too because the parents are their biggest supporters, so they need to have the skills right. But as far as processing what you've gone through, I think it is really good to tap into just stop and, and have some time where you're journaling about it or just thinking about what you went through when you were younger. Mm-hmm. And. You can use that in two ways. One is understanding what your daughter needs from you. She doesn't need you to be fixing it. She needs you to understand her and to support her. And the other is that then you can process what you went through and understand how that is influencing the way you're talking about the situation that your daughter's going through. Yeah. Okay. Woo. That's a, that's where the real work is, right? Yeah. And as a coach too, like Yeah. If you're a coach, you've probably been playing sports for a long time. Mm-hmm. So you may have had a time where you had some difficult sports teams that you were on. Yeah. And so that may be, you may come in like, I'm not gonna let that happen. I'm gonna fix it all. And again, you can't fix everything whether you're the parent or you're the coach. Mm-hmm. What we can do is to guide and support and to teach our girls how to have really positive relationships with the people around us and everything that they're learning on a team sport. Skills they're gonna take into their future, into their future friendships, relationships, the boardroom, um, college experience. They will learn from these opportunities. Uh, they are difficult when they're going through them, but we can't discount the things they learned about themselves when they are guided properly. What we don't want to happen is that they store these memories along with their inner critic and it creates that withdrawing or that they buy into the whole idea that. Girls are just mean. We don't want that either. So we really want to guide them as they go through these difficult times. Yeah, I love that. And it also gives kind of meaning, a new meaning and purpose to it too. Like, okay, we're just gonna eliminate all the drama and I hope it doesn't ever come up. It's like, well, actually it's probably a good thing to Yeah. You know, to teach these skills. Um, yeah. And some people will say when they're introducing me, this is, you know, coach Sherry who stops girl drama. I'm like, no, no, no. I don't stop it. I work on it. We minimize it as much as we can and teach the girls how to deal with it. Yeah. I love that. I do have one more question for the coaches, um, because I do well coaches that are listening. Probably don't fall into this camp just because they're listening that shows me that they're, they're like invested in this work. Yeah. But I, I do, and I, I do not wanna stereotype, but this has just been my experience. It tends to be some of the male coaches that are like, I don't deal with the drama. Mm-hmm. You know, I'm here to coach and this is often male coaches of girls teams. And they're like, I don't, I have a male assistant coach who's literally like, I don't see the drama. I'm like, really? You don't? I dunno. Maybe, maybe not. But what would be a message to those coaches or us coaches who are like. I'm just not even gonna deal with it. I'm not gonna work on it like anything, a message, but also like a simple thing that they can do to help foster a good, you know, teammate dynamic. Mm-hmm. Yeah. On the team. Yeah. I think the first thing to realize is that there is gonna be, um, girl drama, because girl drama is just relationship learning. That's what these girls are doing. Mm-hmm. On a team, it will affect the dynamics. It's going to affect the outcome of your team. Uh, if they're in a competition and they don't wanna be there or they don't wanna pass to the girl, that really made them mad. That affects the overall outcome. And I think that for the coaches that are thinking like that, I want you to stop and think about why you're a coach. What is the bottom line of why you're a coach? I'm sure it's more than a paycheck, and I know a lot of coaches are even volunteers, right? So what are you hoping to do? You're hoping to influence these girls to have a more positive outlook on life, to have more confidence, to create grit, and so to do those things. Part of it is the social dynamics on your team. Yeah. Yep. Okay. So we've gotta do it. We've gotta do it. You gotta do it. Yeah. And, and it doesn't have to be this heavy thing. Yeah. It can be something where it, it's, it depends on your mindset. How are you going to approach it to say like, I have this great opportunity to affect these girls long-term in their life. Yeah. It's worth, um, talking about it's worth dealing with. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Do you have any like really easy ways to. Start to like for coaches to start without,'cause what I see is there's a lot of like reactivity. Mm-hmm. Like we're not going to do anything and then like something comes up and they're like, okay, we gotta deal with this. Yeah. Is there anything like proactive they can be doing that can help this? Yeah, and I don't know if most coaches are doing this, if not they should be, is having a team contract where they are talking about what the culture of the team is going to be. And saying, this is what we're creating together. It's a collaborative space. Um, this is what we're striving for. If these things come up, here's how we're going to deal with it. Um, if these things happen, like excluding, gossiping, all of those things, we're going to have a discussion one-to-one about this and see what's going on. So setting the stage from the beginning of these things are not just gonna be tolerated. We're gonna talk these out. We're gonna work through it. If the coach himself or herself doesn't feel like they want to deal with it, then you need to have someone on your team who does. Maybe it's an assistant coach, maybe it's a parent liaison, somebody, um, who can deal with those things and have those conversations. Okay. I think that's great. That's a great starting point because then it's like, okay, at least, at least something is established. Yes. Yeah. And established from the get go, the whole conflict steps of how that's gonna go down. And then for parents, they need to sign on too. That they are not gonna be gossiping, they're not gonna be talking about other kids in the stands, uh, that they aren't gonna do this mom drama, papa drama stuff, either that, um, you know, there's consequences If they do, what are the consequences to really think about all of that stuff ahead of time instead of, as you said, reactively. Yeah. Okay. I think this has been so great, Sherry. I could like just sit here and ask you all of my questions for hours, but, um, I know you have amazing resources that actually, you know, help, help with all of this. Um, can you let us know about both your webinars and for parents and for coaches and then like where we can find you? So, yeah. You know? Yeah. The easiest place to find me is teen wise.com, and I have webinars are on there. So the main webinars are one on girl drama, and that's a free one as well. Um, there's one on Beyond Loneliness. This is for those girls who are feeling like they're excluded or that they don't have friends. Um, a little bit of a different take. And then we have the Game on Webinar, which is for the coaches themselves, learning about girl drama, learning about how to be proactive and how to deal with stuff when it comes up. And I think that that is a, a very impactful one that a lot of coaches just kind of, as you said, are reactive. They're in the the heat of it and they don't know what to do. So get prepared so that emotionally you're prepared for it, but also on the skill level, you know how to deal with it when it comes up. Yeah. Okay. That's great. I'll link all those in the show notes for coaches and for parents. But again, thank you, Sherry. This is super helpful, super practical, and I just really appreciate you being so generous with your time today. Thanks for the conversation.