If you've ever felt the pressure to have your daughter pick a sport or a position too young, AKA specialized early, then this episode is for you as a coach myself, I have seen it younger and younger athletes needing to choose what sport they play, kind of narrowing down from becoming these multi-sport athletes to this single focus and also down to positions really early on in. Their athletic career, and we probably have all have heard the caution around that and that it can lead to more injuries to burnout. But how do you compete with the pressure to do that? And if you don't, your daughter is going to be behind. Well, I get to dive into it today with a special guest on the podcast. Her name is Carrie. She is a. Longtime coach, but also a parent, and she's affiliated with a softball organization called Extra in Needs Softball. So this is an organization. That helps rank players, but also provides athletes and coaches and parents with a lot of resources on how to navigate the softball journey, but also overall just the sports journey when it comes down to it. Now I got to dive into this specific question with Carrie, but you'll quickly find that this became sort of like a parenting. Masterclass Sports Parenting Masterclass, if you will, because of Carrie's extensive experience as a sports parent of two highly successful athletes, but also as a division one softball coach. So you'll learn a lot. Just based on Carrie's experience, you're gonna walk away with some nuggets, some things that will apply to your situation and you know, some things that won't as well but just be prepared to be enlightened and walking away with some things to be thinking about when it comes to your own daughter's sports journey. Now, before I get into it, I do wanna give a shout out, as we always do to a mom inside our community. This shout out is from Pauline. She actually was in our Facebook group cheering on some new EMG moms that are in our community. So EMG is our signature mental training program, the Elite Mental Game, and. This is our program to help athletes with the mental side of the sport with confidence skills that she can use in her sport and in her life. But a really cool part of the program is that it's for you too as a parent. So you have your own content that you consume to know how to best support your athlete, and you get to join our private community of sports parents. And so there were some new sports moms, and Pauline just popped in here with this. She kind of hopped on a thread with some other moms that were commenting some things. Specifically a mom who. Joined because her daughter is going through a tough time in her sport, considering potentially wanting to quit her sport, was burning out and Pauline said this. She goes, hang in there mama. This program and this process got one of my athletes competitive dancer through the frustration of the messy middle part of learning such that she's. Decided she really does enjoy it and is in it for the long haul. My other daughter is using the techniques in here to manage what's in her control much more effectively and do work to let go of focusing on the ones that aren't. I don't know if she's going to return to competitive dance next year, but I do know she'll make that decision based on whether she truly loves it or doesn't, and not due to the frustration with the wrong things like challenge of learning new skills, if that makes sense. Blessings to you all and welcome. Now, what I love about this is that when it comes to, you know, even when we talk about early specialization, burnout, athletes considering whether or not they wanna continue their sport, as a parent, you're like, well, what do I do? Do I let her quit? Do I not, do I, you know, push her to continue aside from the conversation of like, you start what you, you finish what you start type of thing. But what Pauline pointed out was that her daughters now have the skills. To get through the messy middle of learning a new skill. They have the skill to get over challenges and the roadblocks, like the things that are normal when it comes to athletics and then that can strip away. all of those things. And then what's left is, do I really love and enjoy my sport? So her daughters aren't. Walking away because of their lack of skill to be able to navigate the normal parts of athletics. If they walk away, it's because truly they don't enjoy it. And that's okay. I know it's hard to hear as a parent, but that's really the best case scenario is that we've given them all the skills that they need to navigate it. And if they just don't enjoy it anymore, it's not something that really brings them joy and they wanna dedicate a lot of time and resource to it then. That's okay. And so I just love this from Pauline and also the support that you get inside, this community of moms because I couldn't have said it better myself. And that's also what you're gonna hear from Carrie today. Just another perspective from another sports parent who has been through it. So I hope you enjoy this episode as much as I enjoyed sitting down with Carrie and interviewing her. All right, Carrie. Welcome to the Raising Elite Competitors Podcast. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Definitely. Thank you for having me. I guess I'm supposed to say who I am. Um, I'm Carrie De Nope. Uh, I'm Carrie Dever Boaz, and I've been doing sports my whole life, which is quite a long time. I was a three sport athlete in high school, and then when it came to college, I chose fast pitch softball. I was Margie Wright's first recruit at Fresno State. Played in three Women's College World Series. Was the bride maid three years in a row. Never won the whole thing. Uh, All I wanted to do was high school coach. I lasted in that for two years and then went straight into college. And then I've been, coaching at the division one level for over 16 years. Decided to back off and be a mom a little bit more to my son at the time, when his life started in athletics. And, then I got. Sucked back into coaching again. And I went back into the junior college level and, then I retired once again so that I could follow him. He was a great baseball player but ended up being very successful in rodeo. He was a calf roper, team roper. So I had to learn like a whole new world, and that was a really exciting time for me. And then, believe it or not, I have a 16-year-old daughter and a 30-year-old son. And yes, the same husband. That's for a whole nother podcast. But uh, in that regard, in that regard, my daughter is a 16-year-old, power for commit for the University of Arkansas, of which is a program I started. So life is coming full circle, so it's really cool, to have happen. But, the biggest thing and best title I have is mom and I do a lot of lessons, and so I feel like I have some things to offer and things that we can talk about from a parent standpoint, from an athlete standpoint, from a mom of an athlete standpoint. So I'm excited for today. Yeah, you have all of the perspectives, which is so great, especially for the conversation that I wanna start with, at least around specialization. Can you also though hit on what you do with extra inning softball and just like what. Absolutely. So I am so blessed and God has been so good to me that just kind of in my time of deciding I wanted to chase my daughter around even more. Uh, you know, the best thing I ever heard was you have 18 summers with your kids before they're off and flying. And I realized I was down to like two. And so Bonnie calling with extra inning softball, basically, we connected by share, making a phone call asking about the travel team I was coaching and we just. Hit it off, started talking about a lot of the things that we're talking about, extra inning. Softball is known for ranking players. They do, that's kind of our, the bread and butter. So coaches will nominate them and they get ranked in their, their classes. It helps them with recruiting, but mostly it's bragging points and all that kind of stuff. Mm-hmm. When Bonnie and I talked about it, it was like I didn't really want anything to do with rankings, and I just didn't like it. Like, I was like, eh. Then we started talking and I was like, what's really missing in the softball world is kind of like a one-stop shop that parents can go to. They can get drills, they can get practice outlines, they can hear coaches talk, they can hear podcasts, they can meet people like the elite competitor that gives them the tools in the weapons in their bag. And so Bonnie eventually brought me on. Full time and it's a complete remote job, which is something totally different for me. Like I'm used to a brick and mortar job where you show up and you work and you have people. And so, but it's given me a lot of autonomy to really go after my passion. So I started the commit crew with them. So we've got six young women that are power for commits that I said, let's. Take you and let me help you brand yourself, like your brand matters and your brand matters more than ever now. And how are you going to do that? And really talked about setting a gold standard of what it looks like. And how are you as a female going to be remembered? What do you want to be remembered? This is your platform and unfortunately, it's still at this point in time, your platform as an athlete. You've already played longer than you have left. So kind of mentoring them, developed a drill zone and started our own podcast called Voices from the Fields, which I believe you're gonna, come on, in the next week or two so that we can kind of, kind of cross reference our audiences and understand that they're not alone in anything that they're doing. And knowledge is power. And I think the best way to get knowledge is to talk to people who have been there and done that, and had success and screwed up, you know. Hey, let me tell you how I did something really good and let me tell you how I screwed something up, you know? So, yeah. Really that's what we do at Extra Inning. We now have coach influencers. We've given some elite athletes and influencers so they can pick topics that are important to'em, whether it's mental health or performance training, or overcoming adversity. Lots of different. Things for them to be able to do. So really becoming or trying to become like a media channel that is a platform for the athlete and the parents and coaches alike. Oh, okay. So you kinda have everybody, parents, coaches, office. Yes. We have it all. Okay, cool. Really quick, can you explain to our audience what Power four means? So Power Four, well, it changes and you gotta kind of just sit around and wait.'cause in another three months it might change again. Right. But power, it used to be Power five, but if you've watched any kind of athletics in the collegiate level, it's kind of condensing and it's all happening around the NIL and money, obviously. Mm-hmm. That's what rules everything that we do. And the Power four are the four conferences that are basically left Big 12, big 10 A, C, C, and SEC that are left, that are the big dogs. They used to be, I think the Big 10. I don't even, I haven't even kept up how many it has. It used to have 10 teams and now it might have close to 20. I mean, they're bigger conferences. And I think it remains to be seen. How well that is. There's arguments on both sides of it. You know, there's some that are saying these are still amateur athletes. They shouldn't be making all this money. And then you've got the other side that says, well, they've worked for free their whole life and you're making money off them. So there's us all in between and I think we're in a big renaissance in athletics. And anytime there's a renaissance, it's messy. yeah, and it's. And it's scary and it hurts, and, but I think, athletics does not look right now in the collegiate level. Like it looked five years ago, and in five minutes, or 10 minutes or five months, it's not gonna look the same. There's ruling after ruling, after ruling coming down. I think we've opened Pandora's Box and we're gonna have to see where that plays out. You know, I hope that it doesn't. Hurt a ton of athletes in it that might play at a different level. But then I also kind of feel like, that there's a potential that it will raise the level of what females can do. Like I think it's important there's some glass ceilings that have been broken in the last. Six months to a year for female athletes. So I don't wanna say that it's negative. I think there's a ton of positive. Maybe because I've coached for so long, I can see as much positive out of it as I do negative. And there's gonna be some messy times in it, and we just have to kind of hold on and be open and make sure that the tail's not wagging the dog, that the dog's actually wagging the tail. Um, and sometimes I think it's both ways right now. Yeah, very interesting. It's totally different than when I played in college too. I'm like, oh my gosh, we can even like work summer camps like in the summer because it would like impact our eligibility and all this stuff. And I know And now you can get paid for anything. Yeah, exactly. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. Well let's pull the thread backwards, I guess, because that's kind of, you know, sometimes with the parents who are listening, that's sometimes the end goal is like, okay, my daughter is showing some interest and some talent in her sport. Maybe she'll play at the next level. But let's go backwards a little bit and talk about specialization because this is a topic that has, it just always resurfaces. And it's interesting because you and I are both coaches too. So I do see it from the coach standpoint around specialization in sport and part of it's like, well, it is necessary at some point, but on the other flip side, it's so important that kids are like exposed early anyways. From your point of view, like when we say specialization, what does that mean? Does it mean sports specialization or does it mean position specialization? Like, can you just first lay the groundwork on like, what does it mean. I think it means both. So the first part of specialization would be, I think that there's a lot of young athletes, that are being asked to choose what sport they want to specialize in. Really young. Like, really like when you're looking at a nine or a 10-year-old and saying, Hey, you gotta pick one sport. What's it gonna be? I'm sitting there going. Holy cow. I think they were just in diapers like seven years ago. What are we doing? Like, yeah. You know, and, I think like I do get it from a parent standpoint because of finances, you know, they think, oh my gosh, everything's costing so much money. And I think to me. There's a happy medium in the specialization in choosing a sport. I think as kids progress, you know that 12, 13-year-old age, maybe 14, even really sickly, and I only say 13 because now at 14 they're starting to almost be recruited. So in that whole process of it, I think you have to kind of step it back a little bit. When I think of specialization, I always tell kids like. You're gonna get to a point where you need to specialize a sport that you say, man, this is the one I really love. Like this is the one I love and this is the one I'm really good at. Mm-hmm. And this is gonna be my primary sport, but I hate for those kids, even at that age to say, it's gonna be my only sport. Because if they start choosing things at 12 and 13 that that's the only thing they're doing. I think we shortchange them as athletes of them being athletes and not just a volleyball player or a softball player coaching at the division one level in the SEC. My best athletes were multi-sport athletes. They were not specialized athletes and I think it's because of the cross training. Like they used different muscles and they became different things, and I'm a lot older than you. I can even look at it and go, you know. What happened to young people in our country that we've gotten so outta shape? Like you walk around and you see more obese children than you've ever seen. Well, why is that? Is it that we're, we've cut PE out of school, and there's a thing that says it's body, mind, and soul. Like we've gotta take care of all three of those things. And I think sometimes when we say. You gotta specialize in this, we start to cut out. Is that what's best for their body? I mean, there's a lot of scientific research out there that, at least at the softball level, maybe you can speak from the volleyball level, that softball players don't even hit their absolute prime of the best they can be at till 26 and they're already outta college and we're asking them to choose at 12 mm-hmm. What sport they wanna be. Like, how do they know, you know, so. Right. When I hear. Parents or coaches start talking about that. I'm like, Hey, maybe you say let's pick a primary sport and then in the off season we're letting them do another sport so that they have time to walk away. Because one of the things that's been the most important with my own child is mandating that she walks away from the sport at minimum for three to four weeks a year. Like, we're gonna take a time. That's gonna be your downtime. Now, when that, first happened, I said everything, like, you're not giving lessons. You're not, hitting, you're not ca we're not doing anything. Like you can do anything you want to. I wanted her to stay in the weight room. I wanted her to have some rest and recovery, because that's a whole nother topic we can get in. These kids aren't, yeah, these kids are exhausted. They're dehydrated and they don't feel themselves properly. You know? So I think a lot of that comes from the stress of specialized. Like I'm 57 years old and I still don't know what I want to be when I grow up. Like mm-hmm. I look there and I go, all I know is I don't want to grow up. I love being around kids and I love sports. Like, you know, so if someone had said to me at 12, you gotta pick a sport, I probably would've picked anything other than the sport they were coaching.'cause I would've said, peace, I'm out. I'm gonna go find something else. Like I wanted. And then I think that's the thing, that we do now, when you start talking about specific positions and you say you have a daughter that's pretty competitive or fairly good at a position and she's a pitcher, that's a full-time job. Like that's something she's gonna have to be, if she wants to be at that power for, she's gonna have to put into it. I still will contend to say that she needs to do other things. Like I want her swinging a bat. I want her to go play high school volleyball. Because I think the thing that a lot of people don't realize when you start talking about elite athletes is that we, de value what the high school can do. And I think high school athletics and elite athletics are completely different. It doesn't mean skill level there wise, but I watched my daughter play and they just lost their first game last night. They were 21 and 0, and they just lost their first game, which I, I can tell, really good thing to have happen. Like I said, man, we. They need to lose before we start playing for state.'cause you don't want that to be the added pressure on the one, get that over check that box and they didn't play bad. They got beat. So it's okay. And mm-hmm. I still contend they're a better team, but they got beat. So when I say that, when my daughter is playing at the national level competition that she plays for softball. Mm-hmm. Yes. It is about a team. And yes, it's a team sport, but up until she committed it was about. Doing the best she could to market herself to get her where she wanted to go. Yeah. When you play for the high school, it's all about the name on the front and it's all about the Friday night lights in the community and everybody at the market talking about what Fernando High school's doing in softball. Yeah. And what, you know. And so it's different sense of pride, that the, the kids get to play for, they are normally playing with. All friends people, they've grown up with people they know. Mm-hmm. And it's like I told her, no matter what happens when you're coming back around in your older own life, your reunions will be based around what you all did in softball in 2025. Yeah. It, it won't be what you did with the impact in the summer of 2025. And they've got a really good chance this summer to win a national title. Across the best talent in the country. That's awesome. That's huge. You'll still remember that it's gonna feel different than the people you grew up with. There's just a different level of what that is. You know, there's a, mm-hmm. I don't wanna say a, bigger commitment,'cause I don't, I think when you're playing that national level and you're going, there's a commitment like no other, but it's a different commitment. You're committed for a different reason. You know, you're committed for your neighbor, you're committed for your friend whose father's sick and ill and might not be around. There's just a different sense of pride in it. And it becomes more about the name on the front of your chest than the name on your back. Yeah. And I think that it's really important. So I don't like to hear people say, oh, well it's not important to play high school. I disagree. I think it's very important. Mm-hmm. Because it's a whole different level of, things that these elite athletes have to deal with and any athlete to be truthful with. I mean, I can tell you right now, I talk more often with all of the people that I played for in high school. When we picked, we had a state title in basketball and we had a state title in volleyball. And those are the people that I talked to the most because those were the ones I grew up with. I have great relationships with my college friends, but that's like the once a year thing that we talk. My other ones like I'm following to see what their kids do because there was more of an investment for me at that point in time. So, yeah, with all that. Said, I think the specialization is something that, and I, I feel like I'm really talking out of both sides of my mouth because my daughter, she played volleyball until we moved up here. And then the volleyball coach, the high school coaches, believe it or not, were the ones that put the pressure on her to choose.'cause it was like, you have to do this in the summer. Well, her primary sport is the most important thing in the summer, therefore it took. She had to say no to volleyball and it killed her.'cause she loved it. Like she loved it. Yeah. Really, really a good rero. Like she's a catcher. She's used to being coach. Contact doesn't bother her. She dives all over the place. And I, you know, I, I would say to this day, it's still one of those things that I would love to,'cause it was a young coach to sit down and say, do you regret that decision? Because one of the best female athletes at your high school's not playing volleyball and she wanted to. Right. You know, so I think, you know, and of course then she's like, well maybe I'll play travel volleyball. And then I'm like, uh, no.'cause I'm not paying for both. You gotta choose one like's too much, you know? So, and not to mention they interact, they cross over too much. And I'm like, that's not fair to the girls whose primary sport is volleyball. So, then she migrated into basketball. And we played basketball for two years in high school. And then, so when I say I'm speaking on both sides of my mouth, I told her junior year, like we're done. Mm-hmm. And the reason we were done didn't have anything to do that. I didn't want her to play basketball, but she was, every time we were getting hurt, we were getting hurt in basketball because. Yeah, I don't think basketball's supposed to be a contact sport much like it is in this area. Like I jokingly say, boy, we play like rugby about basketball around here. I mean, she like had a medial an MCL sprain'cause she got tackled doing a layup. I'm like. That's not supposed to happen, but it does. And so I said to her, I'm like, look, you have a decision to make. You've got Arkansas and Tennessee and Florida all recruiting you for softball. How are you gonna feel like when playing basketball and you blow out your ACL and that costs you? That opportunity, you know? So she was like, yeah, as much as I'm gonna miss it, it's just time. I'm like, I think it's just time for your body. Like I'm looking as your mother's saying from a health standpoint, like you are never allowing yourself to compete at anything fully healthy. And that's not smart either, you know? So, that's why I feel like I'm speaking out of both sides of my mouth. As far as kids picking one position, I hope, that I would never do that, but I want my kid now playing multiple positions even before she's going to, to college. I think they learn the game that way better. Mm-hmm. I don't. Stuck in one position. I think it's really sad that most of the, at least in softball, most of the coaches will take when they're young, take the best players on the team and turn'em into pitchers.'cause they have to have someone who can throw a strike and then they start to get pretty good at that. And they say, well, I don't want my pitcher to get hurt, so she's not gonna hit and I don't want my picture to get hurt, so she's not gonna play another position. And I'm sitting there thinking. You took the best kid athlete off of your team to make a pitcher to throw strikes in the beginning. And now we're saying, well, we don't want you to get hurt. And I'm thinking, I want her to learn everything, you know? So, I think the specialization is something that you really have to navigate on a case by case. It's gotta be, I mean, it's a case by case, so you gotta to know that the fit's the right fit for your kid and the coaches that they're playing for too. Like, I don't necessarily go, oh, there's just terrible coaches out there. I think a lot of times there's terrible matches. Like there's just matches that don't work with, with kids and coaches sometimes. And there's nothing wrong with that. Like I don't want vanilla ice cream every day, so I don't want my coach to be the same all the time and I don't want all my players to be the same. It'd make your job easier if it was always, you can treat everyone.'cause I think the best thing that I ever learned is that don't treat people the way you want to be treated. I think that's really. Almost arrogant. You have to treat people the way they want to be treated. Mm-hmm. And when you think about the concept, when I first heard that, I'm like, that doesn't even make sense. And then I started thinking about it and I go, that makes a lot of sense because just because I want someone to chew my butt, if I'm slacking mm-hmm. Does not mean a person standing next to me that that's gonna be what's best for them, for them to reach their ultimate level. So you have to start figuring out, as a parent, as a coach, and as an athlete, is to treat the people the way they want to be treated, to get the best out of that person. Now, you know, as well as I know as a coach. That's a lot of work. That's a lot of work because they come with so many different things that, you know, the biggest challenge I've got in my child is you have to know where your own button is. Mm-hmm. You can't rely on anybody else to push your button. Not me. Not your coaches. Not your teammates. You have to know first where your button is and how to push it to hit the next thing, like motivational speeches. I don't know how you feel about it, but mm-hmm. They're great. Yeah, but that can't be what makes you perform at the ultimate level because then it's gonna superficial, it's gonna good for a set. Mm-hmm. Match, you know? Yeah. So you have to know where that button is so that when you do get that motivational speech, you know how to push your button to go, you know? Mm-hmm. And, and I think the best thing that we can as parents or as, coaches, teacher, our young women or men for whoever you're talking to, is, know where your button is and don't be afraid to push your own button, and then. Find out where your teammates buttons are so that you can help them find their buttons too, you know? And I think when you do that, you teach a bigger self responsibility and a lot more autonomy as an athlete. I don't know where the sport of volleyball is at this point in time right now, but if we're lacking anything in softball is. We're not allowing a lot of autonomy for these athletes. We're making all the decisions for'em. yeah, I want my athletes making their own decisions like and I want you like, this might sound weird, but I tell my daughter like, I want you to fail. Because when you fail, you learn. That's when you grow. You don't necessarily just grow when you're succeeding because it all feels good. But that's just a, an emotion and just a feeling. And I don't know about you, but the older I get, my emotions just don't last that long. I don't get mad as long, I don't get happy as long, I don't get any of those things. I just want to be present where I'm at and experience it all and enjoy the successes. But also really cherish the failure so that you know, hey, this is where you're gonna get your iron sharpened. Mm-hmm. Right now you're failing and that's awesome. Like, I want you to fail and I want you to be uncomfortable because that's really a transformational I. Place to be, you know? Yeah. It's, when you're really successful, you really don't feel like you have to transform'cause everything's working well. Mm-hmm. But when you hit that roadblock or you hit that, whatever it is, that's that transformation. And I don't know about you, but I know human beings brains. Are always going to take us back to where we feel comfortable and safe. Mm-hmm. And that's such a boring place to live, like mm-hmm. Go live in that place of going, oh my God, what am I doing? And why am I doing it? You know, so they can break through that next, door. The one thing that my daughter and I, like I said, they were 21 and Oh, so they lost last night and I told her, I'm like, this is good. Like, this is where you need to, she's just looking at me like, I must have just lost my block. And I'm like. I'm really glad that happened to you. I'm glad you didn't succeed because you've had way too much success already this year. Like you haven't had your iron sharpened in any aspect. And she's looking at me like she wants to kill me. And I'm like, I think this is good. Like I, I'm glad this happened, you know? And she was like, well, why? You know? And all the other parents are like, well, if we would've done this and we would've done this. And I'm like, I'm glad we didn't do any of those things. I'm glad we lost. We needed to lose. We've got three weeks before state and this team is set better than any team in the state to be able to make a run for the state title. I'm like, but you know, there's a lot of luck involved in that too. Oh, totally. That you have to rely Empire calls, you have to rely on whether you rely on all these things. I'm like, so all you can do is your best and grow like we've been winning a lot of ball games lately. Not playing our best ball. We needed to get bid. We needed, we didn't need it to be easy, you know? So I think the celebration of that also comes down with don't try to protect your kid from failing. Like when I tell people I want my daughter to mess up so much why she lives under my house. Because I know when she goes to college, she gonna fail. Right? And she's not gonna be under my roof, and I don't want it be the first time she's ever failed. Like, yeah. Fail forward and fail forward fast, like, and celebrate failing. But if you fail forward, then you've already progressed. And if you don't sit there and wallow in it, you get up and go, okay, I failed. I failed miserably. What do I have to do about it? And you mm-hmm. Reevaluate where you're at and backtrack. Like, that's just, that's the sign of what separates. I think the average from great are people that celebrate feeling and, and do it fast, you know? And it's not the finger pointing and it's not the, well, I could have done this or my mom said this, or my dad didn't bring the right shoes. Whatever it would be, you know? And have fun. And for me. To be honest with you, Brie, everything is, based in faith for me. Like mm-hmm. The ultimate battle has already been won. Jesus knew where you were gonna be right now. He knew you and I were gonna be sitting here and having trouble getting on this podcast to start with in the beginning. Like all of those things he knew. And when you think about how humbling it is that he cared enough to put you in the position to be able to go and use whatever you're doing as your platform. Mm-hmm. So, like I told, you know, it's easy. To share Jesus and let people see Jesus in you when you're successful. Mm-hmm. But do they see it? See him in you when you're failing? Because to me that's the biggest impact you make, is that you have it no matter where you're at or what you're doing. And so I think if you take those things in, and as parents know that, I've told my daughter I am going to love you so hard that I'm gonna screw up all the time. But if you know I'm loving you so hard, it'll be easy for you to forgive me when I screw up. As long as I'm willing to say, you know what? I didn't do that so well. Can we backtrack and have that conversation again? You know, because, and for me, being a coach and an athlete and a mother, I'll tell you what, sometimes it's really hard for me to not go, hello, McFly. Been there, done that. Can I tell you how this is gonna end? Yes. If you don't make this decision, and I've done that, and guess what? Mm-hmm. And it goes well. So sometimes I've had to just sit there and go, let her wallow in it, let her see it. When she comes to me and asks me something, then she's gonna be ready to listen. Mm-hmm. Because. I don't know about how you operate, but the way our women and my family operate is when we're really angry. You can talk to me all you want to. I don't hear a word you're saying. Yeah. You could be Charlie's teacher and it's just like, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. But if you allow me to have that moment of like, mm, I'm just gonna like blow and I go away and I have my little time, and I come back and I can come in and then you come and talk to me, I'm gonna hear you better because I can go, you know what? I was wrong. Or I can say I wasn't wrong and this is why I felt like this. And you can, you can progress. So I know we got way off of the specialization, but I think all of those things tie it back into what we're talking to specifically for parents because yeah, it would be really easy, like, like I told you, I have a son who's 30 who is a rodeo athlete, and I have a daughter who's 16, who's a power four softball athlete. Mm-hmm. Not just boy and girl, but rodeo and softball, and I mean, if one is salt, the other one is pepper. These two did not come with instruction manuals like there's rain. I wish, like I could say, well, I did this this time and it didn't work. Like every kid is so different and every kid changes in every season so different. So there isn't a lot of rule books. But I think if I looked back to my 12-year-old self and said, Hey, give yourself some advice as a mother of two kids that are that far apart, boy and girl, rodeo and softball, I would say. Mm-hmm. Love passionately, love so hard that you screw up. Push them. Have fun with them, laugh, celebrate the failure as much as you celebrate the success. And at the end of the day that you're family and nothing really matters. Like none of the, what we're doing matters other than it allows. For us as parents, some really special time with our kids. Probably time nowadays that if they're not doing that, you're not gonna get,'cause the world's going so fast from the pressures and expectations of us as parents to provide to do. Like I said, I just booked$10,000 worth of travel for the summer. Yeah. And that doesn't include food or gas or anything that's just transportation and lodging. And I looked at that and I looked at my husband. I went, what are we doing? Like this is crazy. Like we'll never retire. We're gonna, we're gonna be Walmart greeters when we're 80. And you, yeah. So that, no, I'd rather be doing that than sitting at home anyways, so, right. But in doing it, that's why I tell my daughter, like, this is an investment of your father and I, and we wanna have fun. And we're gonna have fun with you, and we're gonna laugh at you, and we're gonna cry with you, and we're gonna have all those different things because it's just such a special time and it happens so fast. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, you covered a lot, but I think it's a lot of wisdom, especially for moms who are listening who are in the thick of it right now. We have listeners who are just starting the sports journey. So their kids are pretty young in it, and they're like, okay, well how do we navigate this? And we have some that are on the other end and about to seem off. So. I think we'll, we'll wrap. I mean, I know that you covered a lot in just that one question, but I do wanna ask just one more. Yeah. For those that are listening and are like, okay, shoot, I maybe we've gone a little bit too far down the path of specialization, either with a sport or position, or maybe they are feeling pressure from coaches. Like what advice would you give to parents? There if they're like, well, their coach is kinda making'em choose, or they're putting'em in his middle blocker and not because she's tall and now she can't play any defense and, you know. Right, right. First and foremost, I'm gonna tell parents, you have so much more control than you ever allow yourself to have. The power lies with the parents. More so than the coaches like, and people go, oh, that's not true.'cause they're in the middle of a team. There's hundreds of different teams out there, and it's really, really important for you to shop. What's the best team for your child? Yeah. Like, you wouldn't just say, well this babysitter is the closest. And even though she's terrible and she's horrible with my children, she's close, so I'm gonna keep her. And it doesn't mean she's a bad babysitter. Maybe she's just really demanding or maybe she wants'em in bed. Super, whatever it would. I know that's kind of a terrible thing, but we would never just say, I'm not advocating for people to quit in the middle of a season. I think it's important you start something, you finish something, period. Because there's lessons to be learned in that and maybe it's because. Your daughter's just the middle blocker and she's not playing defensive positions. Well, do you tell her she is going to be the best middle blocker during this season and at the end of the season, we're gonna go find another teamwork that's gonna develop your defense. Like if you want to play defense and we want those things for you, or you're gonna stay there'cause this is the right coach for you or you don't have a choice because it's high school or whatever it is, and we're gonna spend time. Getting you some lessons, honing you in on your defensive skills. So in this season of waiting, when you get that chance to go play defense, maybe someone gets hurt and she goes, well, you gotta play defense back there. And you light it up. And she goes, maybe she ain't just a middle blocker. Like be ready in that season of waiting. And I think the biggest thing I would encourage parents is to advocate for your children to learn how to communicate. Mm. Yeah. Like teach them how to communicate with their coaches, and by doing that as a parent, that means you're not at home just bashing their coaches every chance you get, like mm-hmm. The coach makes a stupid decision, you and your husband can have that conversation, but in front of the child and the child brings it up. Well, that was just a stupid choice. Well bring up some of the things of maybe why she did it. Yeah, maybe it was because of this, maybe it was because of this, so that, that they can see that there's a bigger picture than just, oh, you got screwed. Right. Okay. And then in that, if they feel about it, I always say, you got a 24 hour rule. Mm-hmm. If something really, really bothers you with a coach, you can't speak right away. You gotta go home and sleep at night. If you wake up in the morning and you go, I'm as passionate now as I was last night about it, then it's time for you to call the coach and ask to have a meeting. Yeah. And I know that's really hard'cause most kids especially young women, are gonna get there. It's just gonna be an emotional basket case and what I've always told my daughter is, I mean, even at 10 when she had to go talk to coaches, I'm like, you are talking to the coach and I will be behind you to hear what the coach is saying so I can help you as a child navigate that. And when and if you have too much trouble and you can't get your words out. Then I will say as her parent, this is what she has told me she's feeling, but I would like you to address that because we don't teach these kids because of this. How to communicate. Everything's just a text message, and it's really easy to say things over a text message when there's no face-to-face communication. So I think if you can help at your child to do it, and to be honest with you, I, I have seen a few, and I'm old, but I haven't seen many coaches that wake up in the morning and go, I am going to go to this game today. To screw over Macy Dever. Boaz, like that, that is my mission, is to make sure she fails. Right. I just don't see it, you know? And then when you look at club stuff, a lot of these kids don't realize like, that's a banker, that's a lawyer, mm-hmm. Their full-time job is not coaching. And coaching is a full-time job. Anyone that tells you it's not is lying to you to be great at it. So some of these people that you think are doing it, they're volunteering their time to do it because. Nobody else has or nobody else will, you know? So I think those are the things that I would really do is like to hold your kid accountable and get them to learn how to communicate. It's gonna serve them well in employment. It's gonna serve them well in marriage. They have to know how to take a, but chewing they deserve and one they don't.'cause you're gonna get a whole bunch of both. Right. Yeah, I think that's great. I love kind of putting some of that power into the parents' hands and not just like, oh, I'm gonna run over the coach, or, you know. No, no. There's, but yeah, adv advocating and teaching those skills, like for sure. That is, that's, and I think my challenge to all parents out there, and this is what I always, with all my friends who have coached forever, we laugh, is at some point in time. And this was not necessarily when I was playing, but like right after you heard the word helicopter parents, like they were like over the top of their kids. And society has created that just in the world we live in.'cause you can't tell your kid go outside and play till the street lights come on unless you're trying to get someone to take'em. Like you want someone to take, go play out the street lights, go do that. So, you know, everything is organized now. Like at four years old they have organized soccer and I'm thinking. That kid's still in his pull-ups, like, what are we doing? But that's because, and now we've gone from helicopter, I call'em lawnmower parents. Like they don't even just hover, they just run the coach over. They run everybody on the team over. They run their kids over, you know? And I don't know, I think our children are our biggest treasure. We have to realize that everything we say and do. Whether we're coaches or parents they're gonna hear and they're gonna emulate both the good and the bad. And if you don't believe it, go ahead and have a 2-year-old toddler.'cause they're gonna repeat everything they hear. And when we're young parents, I think the first time your kid says a swear word that maybe you say, you go, oh dear God, that's me. Like that's me. That's where they're hearing that from. So I think. You can't run over coaches, and that should never even be, and you could teach your kid that, but then your kid's gonna have 55 different jobs their whole life. Probably be married and divorced six or seven times, and at the end of it, you're not gonna be happy that that's the legacy that you've lived and you've given and passed onto the next generation. So. I don't know. A lot of parents own skills. Yeah, it's great. Well, man, I think this is like a masterclass in parenting right here, so Thank you Carrie. Can you absolutely, let our listeners know where else they can follow, your work, you know, training, softball, all of that? Yeah, absolutely. So. My work is really kind of all over the place. I do some on my Instagram, but mostly it's tied to extra inning softball. On the Instagram we have a podcast, which is Voices from the Field. And we do a whole bunch of different things. We have Olympians on, we have, former NCTA most winning is coaches on there to talk about legacy and talk about, mm-hmm. Training and talk about rest and talk about recovery. We're gonna do things with recruiting and we're gonna do a whole bunch of things. We have themes. Our extra inning softball, just an incredible site for anywhere from eight to$15 a month, you have access to everything. Whether there's drills, voices from the field, former, college players, everything you can think of to help yourself in that process. It's more geared just towards softball, so it might be not your whole group, but it would be for people that are out there. And, we do a ton. Our voices from the Field podcast is free. It's out there, it airs every Saturday. I think we're somewhere like 22 or 23, so we're really new to it in the scheme of things we go once a month. But I think the inning softball is the best place to do it. And then obviously my daughter's, she's a lot more technology than I am. She's got every Twitter TikTok to everything that's out there, and she does a whole bunch of stuff with hers, and she's very passionate about passing things on to the next generation too. So that's our big legacy is what we pass on. Yeah. That's awesome. Well thank you again, Carrie. Really appreciate your perspective, your insights, just the knowledge and the wisdom that you have being a parent, being a coach. Like, I think there's so many golden nuggets, inside this episode, so thank you. We really appreciate it. Thank you. I appreciate you. Absolutely. Thank you.