Preparing Athletes for Post-Sport Transition

Speaker 1 1:12

Welcome back to the Raising Elite Competitors podcast . I'm Coach Bree , a mental performance coach for girl athletes , and I'm excited that you are here for today's special episode . Now , whether you are a sports mom just getting going on your sports journey with your athlete , or maybe you're a seasoned sports mom with a lot of seasons under your belt , this podcast is for you to help you raise a confident and mentally strong girl athlete . Today's episode will help you do just that . It's one that highlights something that we might not be thinking a whole lot about right now as a parent , but likely should be , and that is what happens when your daughter's sport is over , and that can literally happen next week . Sometimes injuries happen and sports careers , and it could be happening in a couple of months , it could be happening in the next several years , but at one point your daughter's sport is going to end and we need to make sure that she's prepared for that , and if we're not intentional , there could be some repercussions , which we're going to be talking about today with athlete transition coach Amanda Hazer . So I'll introduce her in just a second , but before I do that , I want to give a shout out to an athlete inside our community . She texted us the other day . She said I'm at a volleyball tournament right now and we just finished our first game . I used my snapback routine with the reset word and it helped . It worked out perfectly . My entire perspective changed . I started to enjoy the game much more . Thank you so much . And the reason why I want to bring this up from this athlete is that inside our program , the elite mental game , we teach very simple skills that athletes can be using to help get them into the present moment to respond to setbacks and things that don't go their way in their sport . One of those things is called a snapback routine , so that's the routine that this athlete is referring to , and being able to have skills to lean on in these moments is one of those things that really helps athletes have more confidence as they go into competition , because they don't actually need to worry about what could happen or what might happen , because they know that they have tools that they can lean on , that they're adaptable and they're going to be able to face whatever comes their way . It doesn't mean they're always going to win . It doesn't mean that it's always going to end exactly how they want it to end , but they do know that they have the ability to change their perspective and deal with anything that comes their way . So congratulations to this athlete for leaning on her tools and allowing her perspective to be changed , because she has the tools to do it . All right .

Speaker 1 3:33

I am excited to introduce to you Amanda Hazer . Amanda has a background in neuroscience and an MBA innovation and product development . She spent the last decade working in the healthcare industry , where she helped startups to fortune 500 companies , assess opportunities for innovation and bring out sustainable behavior changes . She's now the founder of Amanda Hazer consulting , taking her areas of expertise leadership , innovation , cross-functional communication and managing change throughout organizations to the world of women's sports . She works with women athletes as they transition through and beyond sports to their next chapter , as well as former women athletes who are now executives that aspire to be a better leader . She collaborates alongside athletes , coaches and administrators to understand the layers to an athlete's identity , how they see value and purpose in their life and work , and gets them walking confidently into whatever's next .

Speaker 1 4:26

Now the reason why I'm excited to bring Amanda in is , as I was mentioning before , your daughter's sport is going to end at some point and that time , when it happens , is going to be a reflection of their preparation for that time . And sometimes we can unintentionally make it harder for our athletes and unnecessarily make it harder for them when they are tying so much of their identity and their purpose into their sport , which can naturally happen because they care a lot about it . But , as we dive into today with Amanda , we are talking about ways that , as parents , we can be preparing our athletes now for that next step , that next chapter , so that it's not a huge identity crisis when their sport comes to an end , because , like I said , it could happen next week . I've seen it before where injuries happen , career ends , it might happen . Maybe some of you who are parents of juniors and seniors are seeing the end right now happening . It could happen after college , even if they have a professional career . At some point it's going to be over .

Speaker 1 5:22

And we want to make sure that our athletes are prepared for their next step and that their identity is rooted in more than just their sport . So I think you're going to pick up a lot of different nuggets and a lot of things to consider through this conversation with Amanda , and I hope you enjoy it . All right , welcome , amanda to the Raising Elite Competitors podcast . Hi Thanks , bri . Thanks for having me . I'm really excited , amanda , that you are joining us today , because your expertise and knowledge in this area of helping athletes as they transition and really helping former athletes and seeing the other end of the spectrum is just such a needed and useful conversation for sports parents . Will you please introduce yourself to our listeners and what you do ?

Speaker 2 6:09

Yeah , absolutely , and thanks again for having me . Yeah , I'm Amanda Hazer . I launched my company Amanda Hazer Consulting in 2023 . I primarily work with elite so collegiate , professional and Olympic level women athletes who are either currently playing a sport and thinking about sort of their life alongside or after their playing days are done , or folks who have already retired from playing sports and are walking into their next chapter , and so that could mean you know , a 22 year old who just finished their D1 softball days . Or I also work with executives who are former athletes and are stepping into the executive roles in their next chapter and really want to be effective in their communication and their leadership and driving impact at work , just like they did when they played sports . So that's sort of the gist of what I get to do every day . I'm a new entrepreneur and obviously look up to folks like you running amazing companies . So , yeah , I'm very excited to be here .

Speaker 1 7:08

Oh yeah , that's awesome . I can tell the passion around what you do . What got you into this path or this field , into this ?

Speaker 2 7:16

path or this field .

Speaker 1 7:17

Yeah , did you experience it ?

Speaker 2 7:18

Yeah , yeah , it's a great question . So I grew up playing sports . I started playing hockey and every time the Olympics came around it was like driving my mom nuts because I wanted to play everything I saw . But I really found my love in playing soccer . I played soccer all growing up and really just loved the way my body felt playing sports . I felt really confident , I felt free . There was just something really beautiful about the game that I was attracted to , and sports has always been woven into my story .

Speaker 2 7:48

For sure , growing up and throughout my childhood , I studied

Transitioning From Sports

Speaker 2 7:52

neuroscience . I focused on research and development whenever I was in college and I have a few pivots in my own story , transitions in my own story in terms of , you know , thinking I was going to be a doctor to actually switching to the business side of things . So I ended up getting an MBA , my master's in business administration , instead of my MD , and I worked in health care for 10 years instead of my MD , and I worked in healthcare for 10 years , and so with each of those roles I was really focused on okay , how can I do innovative or sort of new processes or technologies or bringing new people in to really change behavior sustainably and watching that sort of unfold in the way people live their lives . So , from a health and sort of clinical perspective and I really , really enjoyed what I did for about 10 years and from a health and sort of clinical perspective and I really , really enjoyed what I did for about 10 years . And then COVID came and you know , that was just the time to shake up things for a lot of us and I decided to leave the corporate world and really start my own thing .

Speaker 2 8:50

And at that time I was volunteering at a women's foundation here in Phoenix , where I live , and I was working with women in transition as it related to domestic violence and or substance use situations , and I was feeling really passionate about , just lit up by the work that I got to do and working with these women , and so I was trying to come up with a way that I could put my passion and my experience and my skills to use in this space , and so I really decided to focus on women's sports .

Speaker 2 9:20

Back in 2022 is when I started doing the research around this space , and initially I was just curious what the experience was like for elite athletes to as they're walking through their transition or thinking about it , what were the resources and you know , what were their coaches or universities or teams telling them and how did they sort of feel in the process . So like a true researcher , I would nerd it out pretty hard and talk to about 40 athletes who were either recently retired or just had quit their sport and ultimately there were like some themes , like six different themes that I saw that came up in those conversations and I really felt the biggest thing I noticed was that none of them said oh yeah , I had great resources on hand to help me through this transition . They all said I really wish that somebody like you sort of existed in my experience so that I would know and just could prepare a little bit more for the transition and how difficult it was for them .

Speaker 1 10:18

Yeah , wow , that's a great story . Yeah , my mind's going a lot of different places . But what I really want to know is this because I am imagining moms and dads that are listening now with their middle school and high school athletes who , potentially , are playing at a high level and some that are not , which is fine , we have all sorts but they're likely thinking in their mind okay , so what is the future for my , for my daughter , in her sport ? And a lot of times when we're in this , like middle school , high school , like club era , the focus is let's get a scholarship , let's get her to play in college , typically that's . I mean , hopefully it's driven by the athlete . But I'm not hearing a lot of conversation around like well , what does that look like at the end ? You know , like you , I was a former athlete who struggled .

Speaker 1 11:05

I struggled a lot with my identity after I was done playing college sports , because it's like everything is planned for you , everything . I'm told what to do , when to do it . Working out wasn't an issue , and now , all of a sudden , it was like now it's all gone . So I've had my own experience in that . But , like for moms and dads that are listening , can you give us like . Shed some light on what research you found , like what did you hear from these athletes ? What were they experiencing at the end of the course ?

Speaker 2 11:28

Yeah , absolutely , I'd be happy to , and you are so not alone with the experience that you just went through . Like thank you for sharing that , because I think it can be so obvious to folks who have already stopped playing their sport , but it is so sort of like surreal or almost like out of mind for folks still playing and being really focused and passionate about their sport . So I appreciate that , I think . So I'll try to go like big and then draw in my research into like my own and what I found . But taking a step back and looking at the youth sports you know landscape in America , it grew like 55% between 2010 and 2017 . And it's like a valuation of $19 billion in this country and it's just continuing to grow exponentially and I think it was like by 2026 , it was like a projected to be like a $75 billion industry . So , like this is incredible investments are happening around leagues and training facilities and just this . You can see it playing into the collegiate sphere too . Right , Because you see what's happening with image and likeness and the transfer portal , the media rights and like the shuffling of the conferences right , Like all of this stuff is happening to really , I guess , bring everybody to this stage where sports is really the highlight . It's like this thing that is getting so much attention and I think that it's beautiful for the competition , for kids getting better and more talented at their sport . There's so much good that comes with it .

Speaker 2 12:56

I think that when I started doing this research , there was sort of like three data points that stuck with me , that kind of show the other side of that .

Speaker 2 13:05

So , like one of the researchers I follow , he says that 50% of athletes say they have a shorter career than anticipated and this could be because of a revolving door of talent coming up from that well-invested in youth landscape .

Speaker 2 13:19

That could be because of injuries or a number of different things . But that's half of your athletes , right , they don't know when their playing days will be done . And so some of those same researchers also said that to begin coping with the like idea of retirement two to three years in advance of when that may happen , and so even if you're a freshman in college or a freshman in high school and you think you'll be done for your senior year , like talking about it , acknowledging it's a thing the earlier sort of the better , because the last data point is that post-retirement athletes can experience identity fog for five years or more if they don't take some steps in the meantime to address the end of something that has for so long been the core of their identity . So that's . I can take a pause there if you want , but that's sort of like the bigger landscape when I went and looked for , hey , what's already out there . What are folks saying about the youth , sports and also like the retirement or sort of transition phases ?

Speaker 1 14:28

Yeah , yeah , that's interesting because I would have never thought . Okay , it's your freshman year in college , let's talk about the end . Does that apply to high school athletes as well , or is this just more like elite athlete data ?

Speaker 2 14:41

Yeah , so this , I believe , was elite , so I think this was collegiate and above . I can send you over the details if you want to link it in or anything . But yeah , I do think it was sort of at that collegiate , collegiate and above level .

Speaker 1 14:54

Okay , yeah , can you speak to experience , potentially about high school or like parents that are listening , like parents of middle schoolers , high schoolers we have some college as well who are like I expect , in a typical scenario , they're playing their sport through their senior year , but they may or may not play beyond , but then there's things that happen that are like injuries or she got cut from the team or like she burned out and doesn't want to play anymore . Like all of these types of things , they impact parents as well . I don't know if you , I don't know Is there anything in the research about that , but about the parents too .

Speaker 2 15:28

Yeah , oh my gosh . Okay , I don't know if you this is such a great point , I don't know if you listen to a touch more . It's the podcast with Megan Rapinoe and Sue Bird . So around the Olympics they were doing like a podcast and they had Candice Parker on .

Speaker 2 15:44

So I was just like super interested in what they were talking about because all three of them were like recently retired and so this is not research , but this is like experience of three elite athletes talking about it and they I remember the one part of it where Sue Bird literally said like she thought her retirement affected her family more than her , because they would come to all of her games and they had friends that they would see on a regular basis .

Speaker 2 16:08

And there's a social component right , that's just , and it's also this huge source of pride and there's so much . I think that goes along with supporting your children in that endeavor . So I don't know any research like more specifically offhand , but that was just what popped in my head because it literally I just listened to it like a couple of weeks ago . But yeah , I don't know what your experience , you know what folks sort of in your world are saying or like how you address that specifically . But yeah , I think that it's like totally normal for parents to take on sort of an identity . Part of their identity is through their kids' achievements and their kids' activities , because that's where they're spending their time and their energy right . They're so invested in their success and them being enjoying the process , obviously with the work that you're doing . You know this so well , but I think it's only natural for them to take on some of that as well .

Speaker 1 16:56

Oh yeah , I think it takes a huge amount . I mean this is kind of a different conversation , but I think it's connected . But because we work with parents so closely in our program as well like half of it's for athletes and half is for parents we're not careful Like our not only our ego , but just like our identity gets wrapped up in our kids too . And I remember when I cause I did actually quit volleyball after my senior season and my mom was like oh my gosh , like what to like ? Turn down all the offers . Obviously , like , long story short , I ended up coming back and playing in college and all that . But I remember she was devastated and I was like I feel bad about that .

Speaker 1 17:28

And then even now yeah , even now I wasn't talking about my coaching career . I'm still coaching and I've mentioned to her a couple of times when I'll step out of coaching and she's like , well , I'll just really miss watching you coach and I'm like , okay , it like makes me feel . I'm like , okay , I guess we're all having our own experience and now , yeah , the parents are very , very connected into it .

Speaker 2 17:47

Yeah , absolutely Well , and I think that I mean I'm not sure if you've seen this or you address this too in some of your work , but I think the like kids pick up on that right Like kids are so in tune with the expectations or the pressure or the language I know is a big part of your coaching and stuff , of what what's being said or transferred to the kids

Building Resilience Beyond Sports

Speaker 2 18:06

. And so I think it's just like the work I do of anticipating and just acknowledging and coping with something that is temporary , like this experience as an athlete is temporary , it is beautiful , it should be invested in . It's not like I'm not somebody trying to get people to stop playing sports , like that's not not my thing at all . I want folks to enjoy it fully .

Speaker 2 18:31

And also I've seen , and it's in the research too , that your ability to prevent burnout and build resilience has a lot to do with your identity being more than one thing . So if all of your hope and all of your pride and enjoyment , and also your failures and your downs , are all related to one thing , the swings that you'll experience are so drastic that it can lead to burnout , it can lead to less motivation to come back after the hard loss or something like that . And so I think that I just often talk about diversifying your identity , and that's something that I think parents can so easily influence , because their kids are listening to them , whether or not . Like you know , maybe tweens , teens , maybe not as much as you think , but they are right , they listen . And so I think that acknowledging that that's a good thing , it's good to have other hobbies or interests , and that actually diversifying your identity , it can bring more resilience to your sport , is a beautiful thing Okay , yeah , that's good .

Speaker 1 19:23

Can you touch a couple directions ? I want to go so . You already mentioned a little bit about what you were seeing in the research around , like youth sports , like planning for the end of sport , but then also like in the athletes that you're coaching some of , like the former athletes , specifically , or the ones that are transitioning out . What are you seeing that they're struggling with ?

Speaker 2 19:42

Yeah , it's such a great question . So this sort of like . I'll talk about the six themes that I saw with my research and then the ones that are , like , most common , no matter what . So the six themes are identity fog , so , again , not sort of knowing who you are outside of sports . Feeling disposable in your sport , so feeling kind of like an asset or something that's just , yeah , just feeling disposable when you may be injured , right , and you may not be playing your best . You're sort of like taking a backseat . Burnout , which is one you mentioned . Feeling this sense of community cling is another one .

Speaker 2 20:15

I think so much beauty in sport is like this group of people who have a common goal and potentially some common values of , like you know , hard work and continuing to motivate each other to get to that goal . Like , when that's over it can be really difficult to find that , you can find a community outside of sports , and so that's one . The next one's fear of failure . So going out on your own and putting yourself out there . When you've reached these heights , you're at an elite level of your sport and now you have to start over from , maybe like baby steps right , like you're starting over from down . Here You're not at the top of your game in , let's say , your career or a new hobby or something like that . So a lot of my athletes face that as well . And then the last one is finding success through others . So this one was sort of like well , you're a coach , you know this .

Speaker 2 21:04

Like oftentimes I feel like you have a blueprint or a game plan that your team's following . There may be a nutrition schedule or workout schedule . Oftentimes in college there's like travel schedule or even what classes you can take . Right , there's somebody who's sort of organizing all these things . And so when you don't have that , it can be this like really paralyzing .

Speaker 2 21:25

Like what do I do in this ambiguity and how do I just like determine my own game plan ? And so those are the six big themes that come through . I would say every single one of my athletes goes through an identity fog of like not only who am I outside of sports , but like what do I like ? What do I want to do ? And just finding that self-trust again of like okay , if no one's right , because I don't have my parents telling me what to do per se , or a coach , or like my professors , like how do I really find my own voice of what I want , and so that's a super common one . And then I think that the other one is just feeling that success through others so like building decision-making criteria to feel really confident in , like why you're doing things and where you're going , and that you can be successful again are definitely two that are really common . Yeah .

Speaker 1 22:13

Okay , this all makes a lot of sense . Are these things inevitable , or are they preventable ?

Speaker 2 22:20

Oh my gosh , that's such a good question and as , like a public health person like that was my former life I feel like there's so much you can do and prevention , like with your mental health , with your physical health , of course , like there's so much you can do from like a prevention standpoint , but I don't think you can like tackle it all Right , like I think there's going to be some component of like you're just going to have to deal with these things when they show up .

Speaker 2 22:44

But I think it's all about like embracing the temporality and like the slowly evolving evolution of your life and just realizing that like hey , this is a muscle I'm going to keep growing , cause like transitions or unexpected things are going to come up , whether it's with sports or like your work life or your family life , like there are things that will always surprise you . And so I think that it's this muscle of building resilience and this self-identity that , like when you start figuring out your tendencies , like when something unexpected happens , you're like okay , this is typical , like I usually react this way , but like let's not do that this time . So I think there's certain things that are definitely preventable , but you know there's no like foolproof way , I think , to prepare yourself for all the changes that'll come .

Speaker 1 23:29

Yeah , which is why , like I kind of see it from both ends though , I'm like , yeah , I think some of these things are inevitable , like you said , which is why it's like helpful to have a coach or helpful to have a plan as you're going through it . But then also I can just think of some things that like parents because we work again with parents on their language , with their athletes and not tying their identity to their sport . So I think some of it can we can like soften the blow a little bit in adolescence . So do you have I know you mentioned diversifying an athlete's interests and like their identity is not just like one sport . Are there other tips or things or strategies that parents can be doing right now to help prepare them down the road ?

Speaker 2 24:09

Yeah , I think that one's such a big one and I think also like just knowing that you are a role model , like your behaviors and the way that you show up for your kids , is so important . So , like I would say for parents , like just on that first part you said , don't hide certain parts of yourself or allow yourself to also present as like a diverse human . So like you're not just mom who works and takes you to practice , right , you're a mom who has like other hobbies , or you enjoy other things in life and like don't be afraid to show that . I guess that there are like these other parts of you that the kids should see . Right , they should see that that's like part of your identity . So I think that's just like wrap up the first part .

Speaker 2 24:49

I would say for other ones , maybe like looking for signs of so can your kid like talk about things outside of their sport ? Do they did their mistakes ? Or like losing a game ? Does it like keep them down for days at a time ? Or you know how , are they experiencing pressure ? Right , like those sort of questions of just being in tune with your child and really understanding what their responses or reactions are . I think is huge right , because that sort of allows you to maybe interject or step in when you need to . You to maybe interject or step in when you need to , and so I think just understanding sort of the signs of your child in sport in particular was really helpful and then helping them develop the mental and physical skills . There's so much mental about sports and thank goodness people are talking about it now and oh my gosh , look at Simone Biles right Taking time off for her mental health and coming back and like winning all the gold medals .

Speaker 2 25:44

I think it's just incredible that we're focusing on both now and I think it's just maybe you talk about this too in some of your work . But I always tell coaches that I work with to notice and compliment skills outside of like physical attributes . So if it's like you know your child's like the fastest one on the team or they're you know whatever , there are these physical skills that obviously come through , but it's like they're motivating their other teammates or whatever it may be , that's like that's such a transferable skill , right . That's not like a well , you're only fast on the field , like nobody really cares when . When you're like in school , nobody cares how fast you are , you know , but it's like no compliment . Those like skills and attributes that are like mental and physical . I think it can be such a helpful thing to ingrain in those kids and when they're young . So , yeah , I think those would sort of be some tips or things to focus on as a parent .

Speaker 1 26:36

Yeah for sure . Yeah , that definitely echoes what we teach parents inside our program too . So it's very much an alignment . And as a sports like my kids are slowly getting into the age and it's it is it's hard Like , especially as a former athlete . All this stuff comes back up and you're like , oh dang , I don't know , I don't want to have her go through like a negative experience , like I did , and I want her to be more aggressive because I wasn't really in some areas . I don't know , there's just so much that comes back up at you . But anyways , that's another conversation too . But speaking of that , I know you work with women who are executives , who are typically former athletes themselves . This whole athlete mind and athlete brain kind of sticks with you for a long time , good and bad . So how do you help executive women who are former athletes ? Like , what are the typical things that you're working with them through ?

Speaker 2 27:28

Yeah . So I really , really enjoy working in this landscape because I do have sort of this corporate background and 10 years of experience in this space , and then getting to work with athletes is just at least what I found so far is a lot of them the former athletes who are now executives are very coachable . That is a mindset that I think is part of being an athlete is , even if they the changes or whatever from feedback that I give are not made right away , I think that they at least hear them . They hear them and they like sit with them , and so I do love working in this space with these women . I would say we often work on communication and leadership .

Speaker 2 28:08

So if you want to have more impact or more effective communication styles with your direct reports or things like that's definitely sort of one area , and I think often with women in high ranking business roles and corporations or startups wherever they may be , oftentimes when you get to the top , it's difficult for you to seek honest feedback and to get people who are unfiltered in what they tell you in terms of these two things like communication and leadership , and so I work with not only them but also their direct reports or their who they report to and I do in-depth sentiment interviews get to know any blind spots or areas that maybe they don't see about themselves , and that could be like a good thing or a bad thing , right , like one executive I was talking to , she was like , yeah , I didn't realize how like influential I was until I read some of the things you told me that my peers were saying about me and I was like , yeah , girl , like you're killing it , you know . So I think part of it's also just like holding up a mirror and showing these women like you are an influence , you are like an impact player in this company , and so how are you now wielding that power , using your skills , to accomplish things that you want to ? So I think part of it is checking in , doing the discovery phase of really understanding sort of what their blind spots may be , and then helping them see themselves in that light and making a game plan for whatever's next . So whether that's getting a promotion or , just like I said , having some more effective communication with your teams , it runs the gamut , but those are some examples .

Speaker 1 29:41

Yeah , yeah , that sounds super useful for sure . A lot of fun . Yeah , that's great . Okay , well , we covered a lot in sort of short amount of time , amanda , but can you leave for our listeners more information about where they can find you , your services ? You serve a variety of people , so maybe talk about what services you offer and where we can

Athlete Transition Coaching and Workshops

Speaker 1 30:02

find more .

Speaker 2 30:03

Yes , yeah , thank you so much for asking . I appreciate the plug . You can find more on my website , which is just amandahazercom . I'm on LinkedIn and I'm also on Instagram , which is just amandah underscore consulting . You can find me there , but I would say , primarily for the transitioning or sort of current athletes , that is one-on-one coaching workshops , strategic partnerships with like teams and organizations that I do , and then for the executive coaching . Those are one-on-one , sort of more in-depth coaching sessions that I do with the executives . So , yeah , thank you , thank you for allowing me to be here and just talk about this work . It's really , I'm super passionate about it . So thank you for allowing me to be here and just talk about this work .

Speaker 1 30:45

It's really super passionate about it . So thank you for bringing me on , yes , thank you for your research and the work in this area and just shedding light on this really important topic , so I appreciate it . Thanks , brie .