1:12

Welcome back to the raising unstoppable girl athletes podcast. I'm coach Bree, a mental performance coach for a girl athletes. And I am thrilled that you are here. No matter where you are on your journey of athletics with your daughter, whether you're just getting going, or you have undergone a lot of seasons, this podcast is for you to help her build confidence and mental strength, and also so that you both can enjoy this sports journey. Now, this episode today is when you are going to want to save, download and have on repeat. We are interviewing. Clinical sports psychologist, Hillary coffin. And she has an amazing perspective just from being in the field of sports psychology. And also as a mom to four girl athletes herself. So we dive into a lot into this episode. I'm going to give you kind of a sneak peek in a second here, but before I do, I want to give a shout out to a mom who is in our community. So somebody who is putting the reps in, she is doing the work with her daughter, her and her daughter are both going through the elite competitive program right now, which is our mental training program for girl athletes and to their moms. And. Her name is Emily and Emily posted this in our group. The other day. She shared a, when she said Stella moved up an entire competitive dance level. We received the contract today, the level up was unexpected and of course, so exciting. I feel like I supported her so well this season by being the mom and understanding my role. So Emily, this is huge. I love that your daughter is getting this success and experiencing this leveling up. And it's such a Testament to the fact that when parents, when moms are doing their part to know their role and know how to best support their athletes. They're athletes get the benefit. And that's where this sweet spot happens inside our program, where moms are learning how to best support their athlete. Daughters, athletes, writers are doing their work on their mental game. And when it comes together like this, this is what we love to see. So congrats. So a congrats, Emily, we are so proud of you. All right, we're going to get into this episode. I'm going to give you a little background on Hillary. She is a clinical sports psychologist who strongly believes in the practice of embracing personal growth. Enhancing performance and enriching one's passion for athletic and professional endeavors. Now, Hillary and our company had a lot in common, obviously, but we specifically talked about sports culture and the toxicity that comes along with sports culture at times. And I've heard from many of you who do hit on this when it comes to some coaches in teammates and just kind of what's accepted in sport that wouldn't be accepted in many other environments. We also talk about the six parent types and the six sport parent types and how to be the parent type that is most supportive of athletes so that athletes can have their best sport experience. We also go into very common questions that I get asked when it comes to visualization and breath, work and strategies that work to help athletes with their mental game. Hillary gets to provide us with perspective that it's just so valuable and so useful so without further ado let's go ahead and listen to this episode with hillary i hope you enjoy it as much as i enjoyed talking with her

Breanne 4:33

All right. Welcome Hillary to the Raising Unstoppable Girl Athletes

Hillary 4:36

Podcast. Yes, thank you so much. I'm excited to be

Breanne 4:38

here. I'm so excited to have you on. First, I know you already gave me a big background, but I'm gonna have you repeat it for our community. Can you give us a background, of you and just what

Hillary 4:50

you do? Sure. I'm the co-founder of Texas Optimal Performance and Psychological Services. It's, a private practice in Austin, Texas and where primarily I specialize as a clinical sports psychologist, so I work with a lot of elite, adolescent athletes, collegiate athletes. executive coaches, just high performance domains, and then a lot of parent coach education and organizational leadership. So really working on this continuum of care on the mental health, mental illness, and then preventative work with mental skills training and performance optimization. Okay.

Breanne 5:21

It's so great. Such in, yeah, so in alignment with what we do here at Elite Competitor, because we always say we're a little bit different than many mental training programs because we don't just provide support for the athlete. We also provide support for the parent because of how important the parent role is in the athletes, athletic experience. So, Yeah, I'm excited to jam on this. Now you are Ted Talk, famous. One of my goals is to do a TED talk. So, I mean that could be another conversation about like how you went about that. But your topic of your TED Talk, the toxic culture of sports is super intriguing to me and you're writing a book about this. So can you give us a quick like, Synopsis of that, the toxic culture of sports.

Hillary 6:03

Yeah, so I think like in 2018 when I really decided to speak out about this, right, it was a lot of the unspoken truths or experiences, whether it was for myself as, youth athlete who a collegiate athlete. The stories that I'd been told from the clients that I was working with. What I was preparing for, I'm a mother for daughters, and so when I was like watching the landscape in preparation for going into the sport world, I was just at a place where I really needed to speak out and say, Hey, these things exist. This is a toxic culture, and we allow these things to occur in sport that we would never allow to occur in certain areas like how we. Speak to our children, how we speak to even adult athletes. The environments we place them in. The uneducated, the abuse that occurs that no one really is kind of, we turn a blind eye to, and we might not call it abuse, and we don't, you know, speak to it or we don't hold people accountable. And it really just struck a court of like, all right, if I'm gonna keep speaking about the stuff I need to do bigger and I need to have a bigger voice in it. And so I boldly went out in 2018, did this TEDx and it was probably the best thing I'd ever done. I was just really grateful for the opportunity. And then as we transition now into 2023, I have my book coming out called, hello Trauma, our Invisible Teammate, which is extension of more of a individual view first of like what the experience is from someone who's gone through trauma, what it feels like, what it looks like helps you psychologically make meaning of it. And the second part of the book really talks about organizations such as sport that reinforce this. Maybe unintentionally or actually just intentionally cuz they don't know any better, causing trauma to occur and how we, we all have trauma at different levels and we experience that and we need to learn to work with it as our teammate to function and live optimally.

Breanne 7:42

Wow. Yes. So important and can, I mean, I'm just reflecting on my experience as a collegiate athlete and just as you're speaking, I'm like, oh gosh. Yeah, there's so much there. And then that's definitely informed how I coach too and mentor. But can you talk about some of those key things that you do, common things that you see in sport that are toxic that maybe we. Should be paying more attention to.

Hillary 8:05

Yeah, I think there's two folds, right? There's the coaching dynamic where we, we lack actual formal education around coaches and there requirements around coaches in certain sports where there's no actual, licensure or certification that is needed to coach. And so you have coaches that are. Volunteering their time or choosing to, if it's an employed job, give their time to coach others with well-intentioned probably, right? But the environment that's created, the bracket of morality of we can speak in such harsh tones and name, call and shame and blame and criticize and informs of neglect by ignoring athletes and, and turning your back to them. The behavior that we see on the sidelines of harsh yelling and rejection, right where we're not lifting up. Children and adolescents and athletes, we're not coaching them at their level of understanding. These things occur and they just continuously impact the athlete's self-worth, self being their, their desire. And, and what people don't understand is athletes are using a coach oftentimes as a parental figure as well. It might be a parental figure based on their family dynamic. It is a representation of like the idealization of they want to make them proud, they wanna perform for them, and so the athlete cares. So much of the perception and perspective of the coach and a coach who dismisses them, talks down to them, doesn't educate or communicate in healthy ways of why they're not getting playing time or how they can get playing time. It really impacts the social emotional wellbeing of an athlete. And as parents and as a parent watching this occur, there's so many times that I see a coach yell at a kid. And scream like, like loud, raise their voice. And like someone will be, oh, it's, it's their kid. It's okay. It's like the coach is son or daughter. And I'm like, well that doesn't make it any better. And if that's how they're doing on the field, like what are they doing at home? Or if they are yelling at my children, the words that are coming out of their mouth, I'm like, my kid is gonna be upset by this. The words that you're saying to them about how they're not trying hard, they're not working, they need to be better. Like what are they thinking? Just very negative things. All in this like response to try to get a win. Mm-hmm. And it's like the MIS messaging, which is where they're trying to say they're about development, but all they're focusing on is like this. When it all cost mentality and the environment is so skewed and we allow it, we watch it, we enable it to exist. And that's where my mission is like, Hey parents, let me educate you. Be better. Let me help you ask the right questions about coach qualifications and what you should expect from your coach and help talk to your children about a healthy environment.

Breanne 10:27

Yeah, so important, and that's honestly one of the number one questions I get from parents and athletes is, How do I navigate this coaching situation? So it's typically like this coach has, really impacted my daughter's confidence or has said something, or behaved in a certain way that has impacted how she either doesn't wanna play the sport anymore or is just a different player now. And so we see it all the time. And so how do you, how do you recommend parents. Navigate that. I know that's a really big question. Mm-hmm. But is there, are there just kind of some best practices that you recommend parents do to help in this area?

Hillary 11:04

Yeah, like, oh gosh, I've been working on my, my sport parenting blog forever. Cause I have four, four daughters and I started with my oldest, she's 11 now when she was five. I'm still working on it cause I'm still learning myself but the first thing that I realized is, As a parent yourself, you have to ask why you wanna put your child in sport. Like what is the purpose behind that, and what is your hopes for that to exist? And really, are you aligned with your co-parenting partner? Are you guys both aligned with what you expect from it, what you're hoping it will do, and what environment will help that child thrive? And then talking to the child, right? You want the child to be motivated if they're really young, you know, under the age of eight. They're not gonna have the cognitive understanding of like, yes, I really wanna go play soccer and develop these life skills, right? Mm-hmm. They're like messy. Just join, enter Miami. And so I wanna go be a little messy. Right? That's amazing. And you know, if you follow soccer, you're all about this. Like mm-hmm. And, and so like they're entering these ideal views different ways. Like every child has a different reason. So I think. Having a family discussion first about why you're signing them up, what does that look like? Already as a parent having discussions, like, what if my child doesn't like it? Will I remove them? I've paid X amount of money for registration fee. Am I teaching them that they have to be responsible and commit through this season, you know, as a family value? Will I take them out if they really are struggling with. Emotionally or just aren't participating, right? These are things that come up that families don't often think about or are prepared for. And so I think first it starts with the parents of why do I want my child in sport and what do I hope it comes from? And then have the discussion of what, sport do they wanna do? What are the values you stand for? And you know, what's an ideal environment for them to thrive?

Breanne 12:41

Yeah, that's huge. Because I think we often miss that and I have young kids too, and in my mind I'm like, well, they're just gonna play sports because I've played sports and they're just so great, you know? But it can get really, it can get really messy really fast if it. You know, I'm even sometimes have to catch myself, well, often around like my projection of like what sports my kids should like, or their, you know, like, I played this sport in college, my husband played this sport in college, so they should be playing this sport. And all of that can get super messy, super fast.

Hillary 13:13

And I think even like where do you go recreation level, at what point do you put them in a more advanced skill level? How do you, you know, I think what we've navigated, what I'm navigating right now is my oldest is a pretty advanced basketball player and she really loves it. She herself is self-motivated to wanna be a W N B A collegiate player. She's got it all picked out at 11. Like she's just our, my oldest as you'd expect for firstborn and. She is pretty talented and she has been on select teams and her friends are playing with her, and everyone has different talent levels. And then there's like, well, what if your friends leave now? And how do you navigate? Like when some kids can't be on the same team as you, right? Mm-hmm. And because of the different talent levels and how do you work through that and what's the best. Viewpoint and, and I've seen that from her friend being on a select softball team and her not, so it's, it's a balance of conversations around how sport evolves as you progress in age groups and finding it's okay that it's best for you if your friend can't be on it or you know, does friends matter and you play at a lower level, cuz that's important to the child as well.

Breanne 14:10

Yeah, so, important. And what role does fun and enjoyment play in

Hillary 14:15

sport from your perspective? Yeah, I mean that is like the primary thing, right? When we look at research, like 70% of youth drop outta sport at the age of 13 cuz it's not fun. Mm-hmm. And when we look at the reverse of why do children play, why do. Adolescence play. It's because it's fun that's their number one answer. So the number one reason why they're wanting to perform and participate is for fun. And the reason why they're quitting is because it's not fun. And that statistic, like I wish that it had changed it, it's been that way since I first started studying education. Wow. Like it's, yeah, it's. You know, if anything, it's getting worse and they're dropping out worse because the environments, because of this pay-to-play, you know, the structures, the, when it all costs mentality, like youth are dropping out more and more because, it's just not enjoyable. It's not fun. Yeah. Yeah.

Breanne 15:01

One of our main missions is to put the play back in playing sports. Because when kids are playing and having fun and enjoying, like, they're going to play longer, they're gonna play better. All those things that like we want, you know, parents say they want, they're actually gonna achieve if they are, enjoying what they're doing in the process. So, okay I have so many questions for you, but I know that you have your six sport parent types mm-hmm. And we have, sports parents that are listening right now and including myself. And I'm just wondering like what type I am. So can you go into, Why, like what's the purpose of having sport parent types and and what are they? Yeah,

Hillary 15:36

so I mean, I would love to make it one of those, like, you know, those magazine quizzes where you're like, yes, yeah, circle here and find out your sport parenting type. Like I've, that's what I thought I was gonna be creating a quiz of this nature. The reality when I say this and I speak about it, and I will put the caveat. All of us will be in all of these six parenting types at one point or another. Mm-hmm. And it's not a status black or white. You're in one forever, right? Like yeah, we all believe that we are the supportive parent, which is my ideal parent type, right? The supportive parent is someone who is there for their child, the biggest fan, like loving on them, cheering them on, like letting the child take the lead in play and participation and competitive levels, right? That they're just. Cheering him on. However, we all fall in this category. And so the first one is like the ver vicarious parent, right? So. Are you, like you and I, both collegiate athletes and we are watching our child participate in the sport that we did, and maybe the kid's getting better and we're living through them, right? We're, we're living through our child. We have this vicarious experience and we, ideally, we want them to be the best, but we also are getting our own, like enjoyment. We put our own pressure on them because the nature of Our experience now is projected upon our childs, right? So vicarious parenting we see often. The second is the investment parents. And, you know my dad, I love him. He was definitely supportive, but he was also the investment parent. Where, you're almost like, what's my ROI on my kid and their sport? I'm gonna buy them all the equipment I'm gonna get. Them on the lessons, I'm going to, sign them up for everything to make sure that what I'm putting in, they will get a college scholarship, they will become professional athlete, something that they'll get, and the investment will come back to me. Right? Whether the investment is in monetary value or the investment is in like pride or something you get from that. Then we have the keeping up with the Joneses. Now I think of this one often and, and actually as I've become a parent myself, I realize I. Had a harder time, at a younger age where like everyone was putting their kids into sport. And I was like, oh, like is it time yet? And I had this age when it was time to put my kid in sport because of the research I've done, the knowledge I have in the field. But everyone of my mom's groups was putting little Tommy and Sarah and Julie like up for soccer and T-ball, and I was like, maybe it's time. And so I'm like keeping up with everyone else when I had originally created this parenting type. It was much more for like, oh, they have a private coach. I'm gonna give them a private coach. Oh, they bought a $400 bat. I'm gonna buy a $400 bat. And like, we're eight, right? Like, you don't need a 400 bat. We're eight years old. So it was kind of like keeping up on that level. But when I myself went through it, I actually fell into this pattern of like, should I put my kid in sport? Now everybody else's doing it, and oh, Yeah. And then the other one is, the social parents. And so this is a parent that is like, all of them are well intended, right? When I speak about 'em, they're not bad. They just, we could see the detriment it could have on the kids. Emotional wellbeing as well. The social parent was definitely my mom. You go to the sporting events, you're like booster mom. You're the dugout mom. You're there for your own social wellbeing. Like, I'll never forget, my mom would sit in the stands on my basketball games, like knitting a blanket or crocheting a blanket. And my teammate Mallory would be like, oh, what's your mom making? I'm like, oh, she's making a blanket. And I'm like, what's your mom making? She's like, oh, she's making a sweater. You know, they're crocheting together. And they're like, it's their nervous energy, but like it was, My mom's social hour at sporting events. She would get too anxious at my events. So she was there for social time, hangout time, whatever she wanted to be. Part of the last one, is the independent parent, and I have a real hard time naming this one, but. It's harmful when, like, sport is like the babysitter of your kid, right? Mm-hmm. So you think of this parent who like drops off their kid and, or, you know, someone else takes him to practice and the, the parents aren't there, they're not involved. Like, sport becomes the essence of the playground for the kid, and you think it's good and healthy, but the parents aren't really around much, right? They're working, they're doing other things and, and it's good or bad, right? Sometimes you have to, because we have busy work schedules or things of that nature, but, When we're not there as much, the kid will be like, but you didn't see this, you didn't notice this, right? Mm-hmm. So we can see the negative and the positive of each side of these sport parents. Ideally all trying to be the supportive sport parent, which the biggest lesson is like, let your child lead, be their biggest fan. Let them bring up the conversations on the car, ride home, let them decide what level they wanna be at, and we're just there. So, Cheering them on and like bringing them to practice and obviously paying 'em for it, but we're not fully, totally invested in living through them. Mm-hmm.

Breanne 20:04

Wow. Those are so eye-opening. And I, I, you're right, I actually see myself in all of them different ways. But a good reminder to get back to that parent role. We talk about that a lot in our program too, of like what the parent role is and when we start to creep into other things. But I, you laid it out. You know, in such a perfect way because people can identify with like, oh yeah, there's that, there's that. So good. Okay, so let's talk then about, if we're channeling our supportive parent prototype and that's what I'm gonna go with there's just like a lot of common situations that come up that parents are like, how do I be a supportive parent in this situation? So, for example, let's go back to the coaches. Like say, my daughter's not getting playing time, or there's some sort of conflict with the coach, and I know that this can be super nuanced. Because there's just so much, you know, there's lots of sides to every story and all of that. But say there is a situation that I commonly hear from parents, like, she's not getting playing time. She wants, doesn't seem like anything she can do to get more playing time. As a parent, how do I support my kid through that?

Hillary 21:07

Yeah. I think first, and I've gone through this myself with my kids of watching them first, is this an accurate statement? Right? Is there truth in this that they're not getting the playing time? And is this really upsetting your child? Right? So is it your witnessing your, like, why is my kid not playing right? Or is it. They're coming to you saying, gosh, like I'm not playing. Or maybe you notice that they're just sad and you're like, Hey, like is everything all right? And then they express like they're frustrated cuz they're not playing. So first I would find that source out. And then generally, like I would, I believe in teaching the athlete to use their voice, teaching the athlete to speak up and ask questions and practice the conversations and, and say, Hey, do you really want to, to learn how to play? Do you really wanna have this conversation? Have you explored with a coach what it would take? What do you need to do? And kind of ask their comfort level. And I always say, are you comfortable in this conversation by yourself? Would you like me to initiate it with you? Do you want me to be there in support, but let you take the lead? And it's okay if you go with your child, but let the child lead in the conversation. But you're just there for emotional support for them. You're there to say, Hey, mom's here. It's like social referencing. When they're babies, they're checking on you to make sure that it's safe or you can say, Hey, I'm, I'm happy to email the coach, but I want you to know what I'm saying and I'm gonna speak on behalf of you with me here, if it's kind of at that point. And I think when you're having the conversation with a coach, it's much more, my kid loves this for, my kid wants to play. What is it gonna take for them? They're so interested in this, they wanna get better. What could we do outside of practice that could help them? You know? And I also, Ask the question if it's recreational level, every kid should be playing. Mm-hmm. If it's, your parents have to understand if it is pay to play, where it's select level or higher competition level, that is a different league level. And playing time, isn't always dependent on equal time. Right. And it is based on talent. And so parents have to understand what they're signing their child up for as well, because they might, and they'll put this in all their. Coaches statements at the beginning of the year, no playing times guaranteed, you know? Mm-hmm. Things of that nature. And so I think parents actually have to sit with that too, and, and you might have to have a hard conversation with your kid. Hey, this is a more advanced league. You might not get to play this season. If you really want to play this sport, I will help you out in the best way possible. We'll practice, we'll do what we need to, and we'll have the hard conversations. How can you be a great teammate then? How can you be a great practice? Player, how can we measure your success if it's not through playing time? And so finding ways for them to get a win, even if it's not through the playing time that they'd like to have. Yeah, okay.

Breanne 23:31

Yes. This is so great and so tangible and it also just empowers, the athlete too in these situations where it could easily be, you know, there's nothing I can do. It's all, you know, it's all the coach's fault and, you know, start to kind of, or it's this player's fault, or it's that, it's like, okay. Regardless of all of that, like what is in my control and how can we go about this? So I love that. How do you know as a parent if there is a situation? I mean, obviously we can think extremes, but like where we might need to remove a situa, a par, a child from a situation or a team? Like how do you know when that is? I've gotten that question a few times

Hillary 24:06

too. I think first, when you notice a real distinct change in your child, right? When behaviorally or emotionally, they're just acting different. Whether it's they're acting different when they're heading to practice, when they're at practice, when they're leaving practice. You can start to sense, like as a parent, we kind have the sixth sense of like, something's off of my kid. Yeah. So when you start to notice that, then really having the honest conversation about like, what's going on, where's that, you know, I would even observe, you know, I think our biggest strength as parents is observe how practices observe, how their interactions are with their teammates and with their coaches, and. Just understand body language. And if you notice that they're really having a hard time, and it starts trickling and impacting their sleep and their eating and their, you know, just school and their social life, then it's time to say, Hey, like we need to work through this. And I see it so much with our adolescent athletes. I think that. Freshman to junior year, like it's a hard transition into high school. It's a lot of pressure, that you're putting on with academics. It's a lot of pressure with the status, and they're already in this identity formation as who are they as humans. They're starting to drift away and become a little. Themselves Adults in a sense. Yeah. And they're trying to figure out the world and then they have this performance based sport that's like filling their ego and or hurting their ego and it's, mm-hmm. It's really hard to navigate. And I think this is a place where we need to be a little bit more careful and educate and check in and say, Hey, like what does this mean for you? What's the reality of the next level? I think with n I L coming into play, it changes the whole dynamic of the whole recruiting process and, I think if it's, It's okay to say, Hey, we don't have to do this right now. We can put it on pause. We can like do something. We can do a lower level, like sport in itself can be found in so many different ways. It's just about moving your body. And so if they don't wanna play on a team, okay, let's go find a way to move your body in the gym. Go do, something different that's active to help them just stay physically and mentally wellbeing better. Yeah. Yeah,

Breanne 25:59

that's good. Again, with that whole, there are other options and you know, there's always another, path, another way. So it's great. I do wanna ask you just about kind of switching, not away from parenting, because I think that all of this is gonna inform how we help support our athletes, but, to the strategies that you use with athletes to help build their confidence and their mental strength. Are there any like, Go-to strategies that you use for the athletes that you work with.

Hillary 26:27

Yeah, I mean I think first and foremost I always call like feel your feelings. I think feeling identification and emotional regulation, like those are big fancy words. Emotional regulation is like too hard for allies. I'm like, you just gotta feel your feelings. But more so like understanding what feeling fuels them to be their best, right? And how do they get into that state? So it's all about building self-awareness. And I like to do kind of. An on-ramp and an off-ramp of a practice. Then a game of like before you go in, like just spend five minutes reflecting on how are you feeling? What's your plan today? What's the goals you wanna have? Just spending some intentions, you know, then go to practice and then have like this post reflection, right? Like how did it go? What did I do well? What do I need to get better at? You know, what's my plan tomorrow? And so it really is a little bit of taking some journaling aspects, some pre-performance and post-performance routines where you just kind of just pause and it takes five to 10 minutes, like, Hey, how am I feeling right now? How do I get in that emotional state? All right, what's my plan going into practice? Right? And then afterwards, what do I do? Well, You know, what do I need to improve on? What's my plan tomorrow? It just gives them a sense of slowing things down and having control and having real intentionality around their training. So that's generally like one thing I'll for sure do. I think the, most influential when I tell every athlete I. If you just learn this skill with everything I teach you, it doesn't matter anything else. If you learn this, you're gonna be great. And that is actually intentional breathing. Mm-hmm. And I always tell 'em like, if I teach you how to breathe, you're gonna be great. And they're like, I already know how to breathe. I'm like, right, but are you intentionally breathing? And so, and there's so much work on mindfulness and meditation and there's so many different art forms and practices around breath control. And I really start very simple. I call it the five minute mind. And I ask them just five minutes a day if they can practice their breath work. Free anything else because then when they're in a state of stress, they can use breath better. I just teach them a simple triple threat breathing. Inhale for three seconds, hold for three seconds, exhale for three seconds. Mm-hmm. It's no different than if you look through circle breathing, box breathing. There's so many different frameworks. All of that gets very overwhelming for the athletes to like try to count and figure out. And I said, Hey, just. For three, hold for three out for three. You'll figure out the best pattern once you get using it, and you'll find out maybe you need to breathe in for five and hold for two, and like they'll figure it out themselves. I'm just naturally guiding them in the first framework and teach them how to breathe and then I tell them five minutes because research shows. Ideally, 45 minutes a week will change your neural pathways. We will change the neural structure in your brain to make neural better as we'll, help cognitive processing, have more clarity and confidence. And I'm saying, Hey, I'm just asking you to do 35 minutes and when I tell them, but 45 minutes is your number. They're naturally gonna add on breathing at different times throughout the day, and they'll get so much just power and and control, and then they'll start using it. We'll get more in depth once and now to do it like, hey, before you go pitch the baseball, take your breath right before a free throw shot. Like, when is it useful for you? When do you need to calm down? And they're gonna naturally use the breath in so many different forms before a test. Like as they're just in a conversation, they'll take a breath and calm back down. So I think breathing is probably the primary number one thing anyone should utilize in their work they're doing. Yeah.

Breanne 29:32

Yeah, it's huge. Okay and what about. Visualization. I mean, that's just a common, like, when you think mental training, you know, visualization comes to mind too, but can you talk about like, The science and the research behind visualization and why it works, or maybe you think it doesn't, or maybe you found that it doesn't. Yeah.

Hillary 29:50

You know, I think when I was first learning about visualization, it was really a fascinating story and I'll never forget, and I use it now with a lot of my work. It's much more for, for my injured athletes or my return to play athletes when I first start integrating in. And then there's very sport specifics that I'll use visual visualization for, because it's really ideal for. Informational, like learning and skill development. Yeah. But I remember learning in school about this Olympic diver, and she was hurt and it was the Olympic year and she needed to go in and she wanted to dive, but she couldn't train for like three or four months leading into the Olympics. And so she would go up and get dressed in her. In her suit and she'd never towel and she'd do her entire routine, even up to the 10 meter, sitting on the 10 meter, like, and then visualizing her dives. And she was doing, you know, there's a, a pet lap theory that talks through the different sensations that you can go through, that allow you to kind of engage in all the neuromuscular movement of your body and, and you'll get neuron firings in different. Body parts. When you're, imagine you doing the skill and depending on what level you're working through and and how much you can imagine that skill to exist and the time that you're putting it through your body will get the firing in its muscles and believe that it's worked out. And in this story, I remember this swimmer, this diver actually, she would do it for like two to three hours, like her whole full set over and over again, like get her body up and go back down. And then she ended up getting like second in the Olympics. And I was like amazed as like a master's student. Learning this like this, this must work. Like, you know? Yeah. And then I thought back to when I, first used it, when it was organic, like I'm like a kid playing basketball. Like in my court at like five, like the last three seconds I shoot the ball and score like I'm imagining and I'm like, we all do it. We all use imaginary play. It's natural part of us. Everyone knows how to imagine. They just dunno how to tap into it in a formal way that can get the same muscle movement, the skillset, the knowledge base. So, I bring people way back to say, hey. Imagine what it feels like to eat your favorite food. Take me through that. Describe your food. Describe like something non-sport related, and they can go into full detail of what it's like. Mm-hmm. And then we'll break down the process of actual, first person, third person visualization. Do they watch themselves do it or they, is it through their eyes? and then if it's really skill specific, like gymnast, Gymnasts like to use it for beam routines, working through things. More team sports. I think they'll use it if it's a skill acquisition when they're trying to learn how to do a skill. And then if it's like pregame, a lot of athletes like are imagining their best game, right? And you always wanna do imagery. The number one rule is like, Do it where you're successful. And so if you imagine yourself failing, I say, well, what happens next? Right? So I always let them have control of what happens next so they know what to do if the worst case happens. And then I say, now, redo your imagery until you execute it where it's done correctly. So they're ending on that positive framework in their mind. So,

Breanne 32:36

Yeah. So good and so powerful. I love that. Cause I actually get that question from athletes too. They're like, I try and visualize and then like I go, my brain visualizes me messing up and Yeah. Naturally. Yeah. I'm like, well yeah, that will happen. Now visualize yourself responding and getting back in. Yeah. I love that you said that. Okay, I just have a couple, other questions. First athletes who are like playing well in practice, And then they either hold back or fall apart When it comes competition time and they're not themselves, what's happening there?

Hillary 33:07

Yeah, generally we have great practice players and then well then you'll have the opposite people who just don't care in practice and they do amazing competitions and that as a teammate you're like, why? Like, I'm working so hard and why are you so great? Yeah. I think like everyone has a different compete level. They have a different switch for competition. They have a different meaning behind competition, so when your athlete is not. Competing to the level that you see them competing at practice, or you see them performing, or what you believe or what they believe they know they can do. It's generally related to two things. There's a fear of evaluation or a fear of failure. And it, and especially adolescents, they're always falling into these frameworks, but everyone, whether they're eight or they're 58, like they're gonna be in these patterns. Like, are we afraid to fail? And what does that mean if we do? And so we usually do just enough, right? We're, we're performing not to fail versus performing to take the risk to be successful. Right? Or we have the sphere of evaluation where if I do mess up, what are my friends gonna think? What is my coach gonna think? Well, he stopped my plan time. Will she not let me start next game? Mm-hmm. What are my parents gonna think? What are the scouts gonna think or the recruiters gonna think? So all this evaluation stuff comes into play as well. And so then you have athletes who are stuck in a good enough button. They're not allowing themselves to be great and they're not performing poor enough where they're bad. They're just good enough. And when I find my athletes that are like that, I just ask them like, well, do you wanna be good or You wanna be great? Like the choice is yours. You're gonna play the game no matter what. Like how do you wanna show up? And then it just comes back to them gaining more control and confidence. And I'm like, Hey, worse, can you do like take a risk? And if you fail, like then you'll know what it feels like and then we can adapt from there. And so then it just lets them kind of figure out what that would look like for them. Yeah.

Breanne 34:46

Yeah. That's so good. Okay, one last question. I, I feel like if I could just, you know, have hours with you, I would just ask you a bunch of questions, but we're wrapping up here. But I do get this question a lot too, and I wanna ask kind of from the perspective of a parent, when you see that your athlete is not being aggressive, Give this question a lot. Like she's not being aggressive out there, and it could be related to what you just said, you know? Mm-hmm. Like, mm-hmm. Yeah. all of the fear and likely there is something subconsciously going on there, or consciously. but I get parents who are asking like, how can I make her be more aggressive? How can I make her be louder or more of a leader or just more

Hillary 35:23

aggressive out there? And oftentimes I'll be like, Hey, are you a vicarious parent? Putting your own viewpoint of how your kids should be performing, right? Like right oftentimes, and coaches fall on this pattern, parents fall on this pattern. We are watching one level of the playing field. We're not watching the view of the athlete's playing field. We're not, in their mind, we're not. Understanding what it feels like or what it looks like. And so I go back to, well, let's not talk about the term aggressive cuz we've been yelling to five-year-olds be aggressive and like five-year-old's brains are like on the soccer field being like, wait, what does that word mean? Like, they don't even know what that means. And then they're, trying to think aggressive is like punching someone and being angry. Mm-hmm. And so we're somatically telling them all the wrong things. And I. I break it down much more to what skill? Like what behavior, what, what skill do you want to see them do? What initiative do you want them to take? And if you could see it differently from them, are they doing it right? Is it going hard for a tackle? And you know, maybe they're not a vocal leader, but they show up early, they do their skill work, they're like working hard, and their personality is not gonna be that. They're not gonna be loud. They're not gonna be, maybe they don't wanna go in for the tackle and win the duel cuz they have different spatial awareness and they can see the field differently. Right. So for me, I go back to don't look at the sport and the field or, or the playing dynamic in your eyes. Look through theirs and let them talk through what they're seeing, what they're doing, how they work through that. And if you feel like they're timid, Then explore like, what do you want them to look like? Can you give them an example? Can you show them? But sometimes it's more just accepting your athlete for who they are and the strengths they have and let them build upon and have their strengths shine even more So.

Breanne 36:59

Yeah. Yeah. That is so good. That thought always does come into my head like, what are we projecting outta them? How are we thinking that they should be showing up? And after, you know, I've coached a lot of players just in my own volleyball teams that I'm like, yeah, we have, I don't want everyone to be right. Aggressive, you know, like this leadership and you know, this is good too. And it's all of us together, that make up a good team. So, Another perspective of that. Yeah. Well, Hilary, this has been really, really great, super informative. I've been learning a lot and I know that this is gonna be, so this, you've provided just so much value in this 45 minutes. So thank you. Can you let our listeners know where they can find you and also about your book that's coming out? Yes.

Hillary 37:41

So I love to use Instagram at Dr. C Mindset. That's kinda my most just educational platform where you can get some just. Some tops tips that are coming out, some, some things that are happening in the latest research in the field. We also have a Facebook page, which is our practice, Texas, optimal Performance and Psychological Services if you're on Facebook. And then my book will be coming out at the end of September. Again, it's called Hello Trauma Invisible Teammate. and it will be an ebook, an audiobook, and a paperback. And so look forward to that. I'll definitely be kind of posting that all over my social media for pre-sales.

Breanne 38:12

Cool. Awesome. Well, thank you so much again for coming on. It was great to have you. Thank you too.